ByoS: Build your own Standard

[Ransac]

On the other hand, if we use the Legacy banned list, the format as it looks, without hindsight or even close analysis on my part, looks fairly balanced.

Hear, hear!

Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Modus Pwnens]

Fair enough, if nobody posts any objections, the following cards will be banned from our Standard:

-Balance
-Black Vise
-Channel
-Demonic Tutor
-Earthcraft
-Fastbond
-Frantic Search
-Goblin Recruiter
-Grim Monolith
-Gush
-Mana Vault
-Memory Jar
-Mind Twist
-Mind's Desire
-Sol Ring
-Tinker
-Vampiric Tutor
-Wheel of Fortune

*Modus goes back to the drawing board, muttering things about turn 3 Possessed Portal*

 

[Melkor]

This is fine with me

 

[Spiderman]

I don't see how this has any bearing on anything. Should Mirage be in its own special category outside the other sets because it was designed to replace a core set and the others weren't?

You'll see the bearing when you find the definition of a "standalone".

You already said that. Care to repeat it again?

Sure, since you apparently keep repeating faulty logic in response.

Yeah, but that's because it's so old that it predates the modern block system. Ice Age does too. It being part of a three-set block with Alliances and Cold Snap was retconned. Mirage is arguably the same way, but I don't know what all of the designers' intentions were there. In any case, extrapolating from what you're saying, I see no reason why Ice Age should be in the same category as the other large sets any more than Legends. Mirage is questionable too.

"Modern block system" and "standalone vs expansions" are separate issues. And the latter is what we're discussing (unless we're both totally off-base with THAT)

As for staple common cards, do later sets not count because they don't have Disenchant? Legends has its own "staple" commons. Most of them are bad, but they do exist.

Disenchant was an *example*. I used it because it showed up in at least the three first standalones: Ice Age, Mirage, and Tempest.

Anyhoo, what's the big deal about posting decklists? I mean, I'll do what the group decides, but this whole forum game thing is based on honesty anyway - posting decklists seems like a minor afterthought, really.

I'm fine with whatever everyone decides as the Banned and/or Restricted List as I don't have enough knowledge about what makes a good list anyways, aside from obvious power cards like most listed already.

 

[Modus Pwnens]

The thing about posting decklist is unrelated to honesty, I just have a few cards that will most likely cause you to play differently if you know I have them. Then again, should the majority decide that decklists should be made public before the beginning of the first round, so be it. But either it'll be before the first round, or pm'ed to a neutral person and posted after the Round Robin. Revealing them in between would be unfair, obviously.

Anyhow, with the banlist in place, I'm ready to rumble, who's gonna make a pairing?

 

[Spiderman]

Oh. So if not about honesty, what's it about? Just to see what others are playing? I would have thought that can be done after the "tournament" is over...

 

[Ransac]

How many people have their decklists? I still have to design mine.

As far as pairing is concerned, why not just use the set selection order.

1.Spiderman
2.DarthFerret
3.Oversoul
4.Al0ysiusHWWW
5.Ransac
6.Melkor
7.BigBlue
8.Modus

This would make the first round matchups:

1. Spiderman vs. 8. Modus Pwnens
2. DarthFerret vs 7. BigBlue
3. Oversoul vs. 6. Melkor
4. Al0ysiusHWWW vs. 5. Ransac

eh?

Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Spiderman]

I still need to build mine, as I've obviously just got on today to see the final sets in the Standard format we're using

Those pairing sound fine. So if we're doing round robin, my next opponents are 7, 6, 5, etc?

 

[Modus Pwnens]

I'll see if I can make something work for 7 rounds:

Round 1(Cross)
1. Spiderman vs. 8. Modus Pwnens
2. DarthFerret vs 7. BigBlue
3. Oversoul vs. 6. Melkor
4. Al0ysiusHWWW vs. 5. Ransac

Round 2
1. Spiderman vs 7. BigBlue
2. DarthFerret vs. 6. Melkor
3. Oversoul vs. 5. Ransac
4. Al0ysiusHWWW vs. 8 Modus

Round 3
1. Spiderman vs 6. Melkor
2. DarthFerret vs. 5 Ransac
3. Oversoul vs. 4. Al0ysiusHWWW
7. BigBlue vs. 8 Modus

Round 4
1. Spiderman vs 5. Ransac
2. DarthFerret vs 4. Al0ysiusHWWW
3. Oversoul vs 8. Modus
6. Melkor vs 7. BigBlue

Round 5
1. Spiderman vs 4. Al0ysiusHWWW
2. DarthFerret vs 3. Oversoul
5. Ransac vs 7. BigBlue
6. Melkor vs 8. Modus

Round 6
1. Spiderman vs 3. Oversoul
2. DarthFerret vs 8. Modus
4. Al0ysiusHWWW vs 7. BigBlue
5. Ransac vs 6. Melkor

Round 7
1. Spiderman vs 2. DarthFerret
3. Oversoul vs 7. BigBlue
4. Al0ysiusHWWW vs. 6 Melkor
5. Ransac vs 8. Modus

I believe these would result in a round Robin, but if you find any bugs, someone will probably have to redo it

 

[Al0ysiusHWWW]

How many people have their decklists? I still have to design mine.

I'll probably be ready by the afternoon. I just want to work a few kinks out.

 

[Modus Pwnens]

I still have to build my deck as well, but in principle I'm ready to start.. I'll create our topic Spidey, ready whenever you are..

Edit: If we're gonna publish decklists, we make a decision rather fast..

 

[Spiderman]

I say no to decklists...

And you'll have to give me a couple of days Modus...

 

[BigBlue]

I haven't even looked over cardlists yet...

Sheesh.

I guess I need to bring a tournament style deck as opposed to a casual deck...

I can't tell you the last time I constructed any deck, let alone a tourney level one.

 

[BigBlue]

I don't mean to be obtuse...

But, what exactly is the banned list now? I've seen 2-3 versions here... I thought we were using Oversoul's list... But now Modus has a list...

Before I start building a deck, I need to know.

Edit - Nevermind... Modus listed all the cards from Oversoul's list which were actually included in our standard...

Except for the ante cards:

Contract from Below, Darkpact, Demonic Attorney I'm assuming we aren't using ante since it makes decks illegal when they lose a card...

 

[Al0ysiusHWWW]

Except for the ante cards:

Contract from Below, Darkpact, Demonic Attorney I'm assuming we aren't using ante since it makes decks illegal when they lose a card...

If we're cutting ante cards, I'm going to need a lot more time to work on my deck.

 

[Oversoul]

You'll see the bearing when you find the definition of a "standalone".

Is it in the Spiderman Dictionary of Magic: the Gathering terms? Because really, the only use I can remember hearing for "standalone" in Magic was a for an expansion set that isn't added onto a cycle of sets. So Tempest would be a standalone, but Stronghold would not. Legends would be a standalone.

Sure, since you apparently keep repeating faulty logic in response.

What faulty logic?

"Modern block system" and "standalone vs expansions" are separate issues. And the latter is what we're discussing (unless we're both totally off-base with THAT)

This implies that standalones are not expansions. While it's clear that not all expansions are standalones, all standalones are expansions. I just realized maybe you didn't think so, but the whole reason I say they are is that I've read stuff produced by WotC that uses the term "expansion" in that way. For example, the first sentence of this little booklet that came with all Urza's Saga precons reads, "The Urza's Saga expansion features new creatures, artifacts, and spells that add excitement and diversity to your game."

Disenchant was an *example*. I used it because it showed up in at least the three first standalones: Ice Age, Mirage, and Tempest.

I get that. My point is that using staples like that doesn't produce a clear boundary as far as I can tell. That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work, but there would need to be more to it, I guess.

Anyhoo, what's the big deal about posting decklists? I mean, I'll do what the group decides, but this whole forum game thing is based on honesty anyway - posting decklists seems like a minor afterthought, really.

I don't really care one way or the other. I guess we aren't doing the posting decklists before the tournament thing? I mean, some people have already started their games. Way to make the rest of us look bad, guys. I have no idea what to play.

Edit - Nevermind... Modus listed all the cards from Oversoul's list which were actually included in our standard...

Except for the ante cards:

Contract from Below, Darkpact, Demonic Attorney I'm assuming we aren't using ante since it makes decks illegal when they lose a card...

Good catch. The real banned list, then, is...

-Balance
-Black Vise
-Channel
-Contract from Below
-Darkpact
-Demonic Attorney
-Demonic Tutor
-Earthcraft
-Fastbond
-Frantic Search
-Goblin Recruiter
-Grim Monolith
-Gush
-Mana Vault
-Memory Jar
-Mind Twist
-Mind's Desire
-Sol Ring
-Tinker
-Vampiric Tutor
-Wheel of Fortune

 

[BigBlue]

Whilst starting to deckbuild... this is a weird format... Not quite everything I want is available.

I've got 2 partial decks so far, I'll have to flesh them out and see how they work.

 

[Spiderman]

Is it in the Spiderman Dictionary of Magic: the Gathering terms? Because really, the only use I can remember hearing for "standalone" in Magic was a for an expansion set that isn't added onto a cycle of sets. So Tempest would be a standalone, but Stronghold would not. Legends would be a standalone.

I disagree. Now that I think about it, I think "standalone" means basic lands are included with the set (barring Arabian Nights, where the Mt was already declared a mistake). Thus, Legends is not a standalone.

What faulty logic?

That a big set means it's a standalone

This implies that standalones are not expansions. While it's clear that not all expansions are standalones, all standalones are expansions. I just realized maybe you didn't think so, but the whole reason I say they are is that I've read stuff produced by WotC that uses the term "expansion" in that way. For example, the first sentence of this little booklet that came with all Urza's Saga precons reads, "The Urza's Saga expansion features new creatures, artifacts, and spells that add excitement and diversity to your game."

*That* I agree with.

I get that. My point is that using staples like that doesn't produce a clear boundary as far as I can tell. That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't work, but there would need to be more to it, I guess.

Right. And my point was while those were example, indeed, there was more to it. Like lands being included, now that I've thought about it.

I don't really care one way or the other. I guess we aren't doing the posting decklists before the tournament thing? I mean, some people have already started their games. Way to make the rest of us look bad, guys. I have no idea what to play.

That was actually to everyone. But no one's started to play with; only Modus and I have a thread up, but we haven't started.

 

[Oversoul]

I disagree. Now that I think about it, I think "standalone" means basic lands are included with the set (barring Arabian Nights, where the Mt was already declared a mistake). Thus, Legends is not a standalone.

Ah, well, that's pretty clear. I think we both agree that Legends doesn't have basic lands. I'm completely unfamiliar with this as the criterion, though.

That a big set means it's a standalone

Firstly, that isn't faulty logic. For example, let's put it into a syllogism...

1: All non-core sets with over 250 cards are standalones.
2: Legends has over 250 cards.
3: Legends is a standalone.

You wouldn't be saying that there's a logical flaw. You'd be disagreeing with one of the premises (the first one).

Secondly, I wasn't actually making assertions about what sets are standalones. It might have seemed like I was, but what I was actually doing was stating that, for the purposes of a "ByoS" game, Legends should be grouped with the other sets it has something in common with (being large) that matters for the purposes of generating a cardpool, rather than with other sets it is dissimilar to in that regard. Whether it actually counts as a standalone for denotative purposes depends on the criteria used to determine "standalone."

 

[Spiderman]

I'm completely unfamiliar with this as the criterion, though.

<shrug> It's the common theme through any of the expansions that are also denoted as "standalones".