ByoS: Build your own Standard

[Oversoul]

Um, no, because Mirage was specifically designed to be a standalone expansion and in fact replace "the core set"; it was in design development at the same time as Ice Age (which I think was being designed when Alpha/Beta was released; if not then, then right after) - several WOTC articles have mentioned this.

I don't see how this has any bearing on anything. Should Mirage be in its own special category outside the other sets because it was designed to replace a core set and the others weren't?

By the same token, just because it being huge and comparable size to a standalone doesn't mean it's a standalone.

You already said that. Care to repeat it again?

Ice Age and Mirage were specifically designed as standalone because of certain characteristics, most of which escape me, but being playable in starters, containing certain "staple" common cards like Disenchant, red burn come to mind. Additionally, it's mentioned on Crystal Keep that...

Yeah, but that's because it's so old that it predates the modern block system. Ice Age does too. It being part of a three-set block with Alliances and Cold Snap was retconned. Mirage is arguably the same way, but I don't know what all of the designers' intentions were there. In any case, extrapolating from what you're saying, I see no reason why Ice Age should be in the same category as the other large sets any more than Legends. Mirage is questionable too.

As for staple common cards, do later sets not count because they don't have Disenchant? Legends has its own "staple" commons. Most of them are bad, but they do exist.

 

[Oversoul]

Scourge, I choose you!

Standalone 1: Tempest (Spiderman)
Expansion 1: Urza's Legacy (DarthFerret)
Expansion 2: Scourge (Oversoul
Core: Al0ysiusHWWW
Expansion 3: Ransac
Expansion 4: Melkor
Expansion 5: BigBlue
Standalone 2: Modus

Ice Age - Alliances, Coldsnap
Mirage - Visions, Weatherlight
Tempest - Stronghold, Exodus
Urza's Saga - Urza's Legacy, Urza's Destiny
Mercadian Masques - Nemesis, Prophecy
Invasion - Planeshift, Apocolypse
Odyssey - Torment, Judgement
Onslaught - Legions, Scourge
Mirrodin - Darksteel, Fifth Dawn
Champions of Kamigawa - Betrayers of Kamigawa, Saviors of Kamigawa
Ravnica: City of Guilds - Guildpact, Dissension
Time Spiral - Planar Chaos, Future Sight
Lorwyn - Morningtide
Shadowmoor - Eventide
Shards of Alara - Conflux

Core sets are Alpha, Beta/Unlimited, Revised, 4th Edition, 5th Edition, 6th Edition, 7th Edition, 8th Edition, 9th Edition, or 10th Edition (X)

Unblocked expansoins are - Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends, The Dark, Fallen Empires, and Homelands

 

[Al0ysiusHWWW]

Revised

 

[Oversoul]

Update...

Standalone 1: Tempest (Spiderman)
Expansion 1: Urza's Legacy (DarthFerret)
Expansion 2: Scourge (Oversoul
Core: Revised (Al0ysiusHWWW)
Expansion 3: Ransac
Expansion 4: Melkor
Expansion 5: BigBlue
Standalone 2: Modus

Ice Age - Alliances, Coldsnap
Mirage - Visions, Weatherlight
Tempest - Stronghold, Exodus
Urza's Saga - Urza's Legacy, Urza's Destiny
Mercadian Masques - Nemesis, Prophecy
Invasion - Planeshift, Apocolypse
Odyssey - Torment, Judgement
Onslaught - Legions, Scourge
Mirrodin - Darksteel, Fifth Dawn
Champions of Kamigawa - Betrayers of Kamigawa, Saviors of Kamigawa
Ravnica: City of Guilds - Guildpact, Dissension
Time Spiral - Planar Chaos, Future Sight
Lorwyn - Morningtide
Shadowmoor - Eventide
Shards of Alara - Conflux

Core sets are Alpha, Beta/Unlimited, Revised, 4th Edition, 5th Edition, 6th Edition, 7th Edition, 8th Edition, 9th Edition, or 10th Edition (X)

Unblocked expansoins are - Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends, The Dark, Fallen Empires, and Homelands

 

[Al0ysiusHWWW]

Update...

Jez, Sorry sorry.

 

[BigBlue]

I think we agreed w/ the B/R list from Oversoul in Post 19... I realize some folks didn't comment, but I sorta took that as agreement with it.

We may be able to start deckbuilding soon.

 

[Melkor]

I actually have an set I hope nobody picks because then I won't have a choice as to what deck to build.

 

[Oversoul]

I think we agreed w/ the B/R list from Oversoul in Post 19... I realize some folks didn't comment, but I sorta took that as agreement with it.

Well, the first list I posted was just the Legacy banned list, but I did also post, for convenience, the list of cards that are restricted in Vintage but not banned in Legacy (as of now, the only cards in our format that are in this category are Crop Rotation and Regrowth). My suggestion in the post was to let those cards be, since without all the other powerful cards to use with them, they won't be dangerous. For example, Crop Rotation is restricted in Vintage because of Tolarian Academy and Strip Mine, which won't appear in our cardpool (Strip Mine would if someone picked Antiquities) and would be banned even if they did.

I'm not sure whether to interpret the silence on that point thus far as people wanting those cards to be restricted or not. I'd rather they be unrestricted. None of them seem worthy of restriction and if one of them is powerful enough to be a major force in our format, it will likely be the only one (although I can't imagine which one it would be). That would mean games could come down to who could get their copy of the one good card we've restricted first, which would be silly.

I actually have an set I hope nobody picks because then I won't have a choice as to what deck to build.

You mean you don't want anyone to pick the set because you'll be too tempted to base your deck around some card(s) from it?

 

[BigBlue]

Lotus Petal is also restricted so far... but I completely agree w/ your comment that once the Banned list is gone, the restrictions aren't necessary - but probably wouldn't matter anyways...

 

[Melkor]

"You mean you don't want anyone to pick the set because you'll be too tempted to base your deck around some card(s) from it?"

Basically yes.

I originally thought that we didn't need to have a banned-restricted list at all now that Alpha/Beta/Unlimited are out of the mix. Except that I don't think we can have 4 Balances or 4 Black Vice running around either. I we should either use the Legacy banned list of the Vintage Banned/Restricted list, coming up with our own is more work than I'd like to put in. I'd also be willing to play without and then modify as we go along.

 

[Oversoul]

Lotus Petal is also restricted so far... but I completely agree w/ your comment that once the Banned list is gone, the restrictions aren't necessary - but probably wouldn't matter anyways...

Nothing is restricted so far, since we never got any consensus on banned/restricted lists in the first place. Let's not get ahead of ourselves. As for restrictions mattering, they definitely would in certain cases. If someone picks a set with Brainstorm, people building decks with any blue cards are likely to want to use four copies. I can see that also being the case with Lotus Petal or Regrowth. Crop Rotation, not so much. I doubt people would use it at all. But if people do want to use Lotus Petal or Regrowth, they'll probably want more than one copy. Should they be restricted, though?

I say they shouldn't. They're restricted in Vintage because of their interactions with other cards that aren't available to us. It's the same reason they aren't banned in Legacy. If we want to restrict powerful cards, there are much more egregious potential offenders.

I originally thought that we didn't need to have a banned-restricted list at all now that Alpha/Beta/Unlimited are out of the mix. Except that I don't think we can have 4 Balances or 4 Black Vice running around either.

Balance and Black Vise would probably be the least of your problems. DF picked Urza's Legacy, which has both Tinker and Memory Jar.

I we should either use the Legacy banned list of the Vintage Banned/Restricted list, coming up with our own is more work than I'd like to put in. I'd also be willing to play without and then modify as we go along.

"Legacy banned list of the Vintage Banned/Restricted list"? That doesn't make sense.

 

[Ransac]

I like the Revised pick. Love it, actually.

I WANTED to pick Planar Chaos, but I'm actually going to pick a set for the sole purpose of blocking Mirrodin from our pool. With Urza's Legacy providing Tinker, I'm not going to allow the artifact lands to create a format for nothing but Affinity (I HATE Affinity).

I'll pick Fifth Dawn. I'm willing to allowing Shackles, Crucible and Explosives if it means no Artifact-Lands. oinking Tinker....


Standalone 1: Tempest (Spiderman)
Expansion 1: Urza's Legacy (DarthFerret)
Expansion 2: Scourge (Oversoul
Core: Revised (Al0ysiusHWWW)
Expansion 3: Fifth Dawn (Ransac)
Expansion 4: Melkor
Expansion 5: BigBlue
Standalone 2: Modus

Ice Age - Alliances, Coldsnap
Mirage - Visions, Weatherlight
Tempest - Stronghold, Exodus
Urza's Saga - Urza's Legacy, Urza's Destiny
Mercadian Masques - Nemesis, Prophecy
Invasion - Planeshift, Apocolypse
Odyssey - Torment, Judgement
Onslaught - Legions, Scourge
Mirrodin - Darksteel, Fifth Dawn
Champions of Kamigawa - Betrayers of Kamigawa, Saviors of Kamigawa
Ravnica: City of Guilds - Guildpact, Dissension
Time Spiral - Planar Chaos, Future Sight
Lorwyn - Morningtide
Shadowmoor - Eventide
Shards of Alara - Conflux

Core sets are Alpha, Beta/Unlimited, Revised, 4th Edition, 5th Edition, 6th Edition, 7th Edition, 8th Edition, 9th Edition, or 10th Edition (X)

Unblocked expansoins are - Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends, The Dark, Fallen Empires, and Homelands


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Oversoul]

I WANTED to pick Planar Chaos, but I'm actually going to pick a set for the sole purpose of blocking Mirrodin from our pool. With Urza's Legacy providing Tinker, I'm not going to allow the artifact lands to create a format for nothing but Affinity (I HATE Affinity).

Tinker will probably be banned. It's banned in Legacy, which is the list I've been wanting us to go by. If it is allowed for some reason, then we'll all be using it, artifact lands or no. Blocking Mirrodin seems like a bad reason for picking a set, but I'm cool with it: I like Fifth Dawn anyway.

 

[Ransac]

With Scourge and Tempest already picked, it was down to Planar Chaos, Weatherlight, and Fifth Dawn anyway. I'm fine with Fifth Dawn as my set. I loves me some Eternal Witness.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Melkor]

Actually what would probably kill the format is 4x Mana Vault and 4x Grim Monolith. Really the problem with this is Scourge, I'm wondering how Memory Jar would win without Tendrils (and without Megrim). I 'm actually interested, what would you use without those two cards?

I meant "or" rather than "of"

Always liked Apocalypse, also it is where I stopped paying attention to new cards, so it is one less set I have to investigate from scratch.

Standalone 1: Tempest (Spiderman)
Expansion 1: Urza's Legacy (DarthFerret)
Expansion 2: Scourge (Oversoul
Core: Revised (Al0ysiusHWWW)
Expansion 3: Fifth Dawn (Ransac)
Expansion 4: Apocalypse(Melkor)
Expansion 5: BigBlue
Standalone 2: Modus

Ice Age - Alliances, Coldsnap
Mirage - Visions, Weatherlight
Tempest - Stronghold, Exodus
Urza's Saga - Urza's Legacy, Urza's Destiny
Mercadian Masques - Nemesis, Prophecy
Invasion - Planeshift, Apocalypse
Odyssey - Torment, Judgement
Onslaught - Legions, Scourge
Mirrodin - Darksteel, Fifth Dawn
Champions of Kamigawa - Betrayers of Kamigawa, Saviors of Kamigawa
Ravnica: City of Guilds - Guildpact, Dissension
Time Spiral - Planar Chaos, Future Sight
Lorwyn - Morningtide
Shadowmoor - Eventide
Shards of Alara - Conflux

Core sets are Alpha, Beta/Unlimited, Revised, 4th Edition, 5th Edition, 6th Edition, 7th Edition, 8th Edition, 9th Edition, or 10th Edition (X)

Unblocked expansoins are - Arabian Nights, Antiquities, Legends, The Dark, Fallen Empires, and Homelands

 

[Al0ysiusHWWW]

Actually what would probably kill the format is 4x Mana Vault and 4x Grim Monolith. Really the problem with this is Scourge, I'm wondering how Memory Jar would win without Tendrils (and without Megrim). I 'm actually interested, what would you use without those two cards?

Well I wouldn't be so worried about them comboing a win off of jar, as using it as massive hand acceleration with things like Welder.

 

[Modus Pwnens]

Just in case, we do use a 60-card minimum deck with 15 sideboard cards right?

 

[Ransac]

Melkor: Fortunately, Mana Vault, Grim Monolith and Memory Jar are banned.

MP: Yes, since this is a constructed format. 60-card minimum. 15 card sideboard. I imagine it'd be appropriate for everyone to post their list on a thread or at least PM them to a watchful eye.

Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Modus Pwnens]

Oh, I'll pm 'm to some neutral outsider, I have my deck already planned and wouldn't want my surprises spoiled

 

[Ransac]

I think it should be up to the general populous to decide how to approach the decklists.

I'm all for having the lists being public once gameplay begins.


Ransac, cpa trash man