ByoS: Build your own Standard

[Modus Pwnens]

Sure, I have no problems with that either, but when it comes to a vote, I'd vote for secrecy. I'd like to have this stated before the first round begins though, as if decklists are to be made public, I might want to change some numbers, as I believe some of my cards will be less good if they are public knowledge

 

[Ransac]

Agreed. How says the rest of you? Public decklists before we start playing or no? If yes, then all of us should turn in our decklists to an outside party so they can all be posted at the same time.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Al0ysiusHWWW]

Yeah, I'm cool with public decklists.

So have we specifically decided on what the banned/restricted list is?

 

[Ransac]

It seems to me that the Legacy banned list is our banned list.... unless I missed something.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Al0ysiusHWWW]

So we're not going with the restricted vintage list as well, correct?

 

[Ransac]

Je ne sais pas....


Could someone post a list of the proposed B/R list ideas? Not the full card lists, just the ideas of what we should be using as guides.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Al0ysiusHWWW]

I'm for the Legacy banned list, but not for the vintage restricted list.

 

[Ransac]

After reviewing Oversoul's thread, I'm all for using the Legacy banned list.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Oversoul]

Actually what would probably kill the format is 4x Mana Vault and 4x Grim Monolith.

Yeah, those two and Sol Ring as well. And in conjunction with Tinker and Memory Jar, I'd think. But there'd be other options too.

Really the problem with this is Scourge, I'm wondering how Memory Jar would win without Tendrils (and without Megrim). I 'm actually interested, what would you use without those two cards?

Cut out enough cards that have synergy with it and even Memory Jar won't be broken. Even without Scourge, there are still plenty of options. Like Al0ysiusHWWW pointed out, there's Goblin Welder, which could let you empty your hand, use Memory Jar, empty your hand again, and then Weld Memory Jar back in and empty your hand yet again.

I meant "or" rather than "of"

Ah. Which one, though? There's a pretty big difference.

Could someone post a list of the proposed B/R list ideas? Not the full card lists, just the ideas of what we should be using as guides.

Well, my original proposal was to simply ban the cards that were banned in Standard at the times our sets were part of the Standard rotation. This is still technically possible, but I the only way I've found of going back that far is to look up the individual cards on Crystal Keep, which I don't really feel like doing. Also, Standard used to be messier than it is now, and that could complicate things.

BigBlue suggested using the Vintage/Legacy B/R list. I still don't actually know what that means, but he possibly meant to use the list from one of those formats or the other. He might have meant we should use both, or maybe I'm just insane, but that's how I originally interpreted it. So I posted the Legacy banned list, then posted a list of cards that are restricted in Vintage but not banned in Legacy, noting that it seemed innocuous enough and since then preference has been the Legacy banned list, but I wasn't really getting any confirmation on that until recently.

So any objections from anyone to using the Legacy banned list as our banned list for this format?

 

[BigBlue]

And then there was one...

No one went after Force of Will...
No one went after Jitte...

This final expansion choice could be important, but probably isn't.

I was originally going to go w/ The Dark - just for the fun of it...

But, I think now that all is said and done...

I'm going to go with one of my favorite old sets - Visions.

I still have no idea what I'm going to play, but I am sure it won't win many games.

Take us home Modus, let's see how this plays out.

Standalone 1: Tempest (Spiderman)
Expansion 1: Urza's Legacy (DarthFerret)
Expansion 2: Scourge (Oversoul
Core: Revised (Al0ysiusHWWW)
Expansion 3: Fifth Dawn (Ransac)
Expansion 4: Apocalypse(Melkor)
Expansion 5: Visions (BigBlue)
Standalone 2: Modus

Ice Age - Alliances, Coldsnap
Mirage - Visions, Weatherlight
Tempest - Stronghold, Exodus
Urza's Saga - Urza's Legacy, Urza's Destiny
Mercadian Masques - Nemesis, Prophecy
Invasion - Planeshift, Apocalypse
Odyssey - Torment, Judgement
Onslaught - Legions, Scourge
Mirrodin - Darksteel, Fifth Dawn
Champions of Kamigawa - Betrayers of Kamigawa, Saviors of Kamigawa
Ravnica: City of Guilds - Guildpact, Dissension
Time Spiral - Planar Chaos, Future Sight
Lorwyn - Morningtide
Shadowmoor - Eventide
Shards of Alara - Conflux

Core sets are Alpha, Beta/Unlimited, Revised, 4th Edition, 5th Edition, 6th Edition, 7th Edition, 8th Edition, 9th Edition, or 10th Edition (X)
--------------------------------------------
Banned List input - I meant really either of the lists - Legacy makes most sense... The cards on that list are disruptive in any format. Since this isn't standard - the cards which were banned in standard don't matter - the rest of their blocks are gone. If there are no restricted cards, won't bug me either.

Deck List input - I don't care. I think Mooseman would probably do it.

 

[Oversoul]

This final expansion choice could be important, but probably isn't.

Actually, I think there are a couple of picks Modus could make that could dramatically alter the face of this format.

I'm going to go with one of my favorite old sets - Visions.

I still have no idea what I'm going to play, but I am sure it won't win many games.

I believe in you, BigBlue.

Banned List input - I meant really either of the lists - Legacy makes most sense... The cards on that list are disruptive in any format. Since this isn't standard - the cards which were banned in standard don't matter - the rest of their blocks are gone. If there are no restricted cards, won't bug me either.

Yeah. The bad news is that I am indeed insane. The good news is that I caught it later when I went back and read what you said again?

Deck List input - I don't care.

Same here.

 

[Modus Pwnens]

Mercadian Masques it is =)


Standalone 1: Tempest (Spiderman)
Expansion 1: Urza's Legacy (DarthFerret)
Expansion 2: Scourge (Oversoul
Core: Revised (Al0ysiusHWWW)
Expansion 3: Fifth Dawn (Ransac)
Expansion 4: Apocalypse(Melkor)
Expansion 5: Visions (BigBlue)
Standalone 2: Mercadian Masques (Modus)

Ice Age - Alliances, Coldsnap
Mirage - Visions, Weatherlight
Tempest - Stronghold, Exodus
Urza's Saga - Urza's Legacy, Urza's Destiny
Mercadian Masques - Nemesis, Prophecy
Invasion - Planeshift, Apocalypse
Odyssey - Torment, Judgement
Onslaught - Legions, Scourge
Mirrodin - Darksteel, Fifth Dawn
Champions of Kamigawa - Betrayers of Kamigawa, Saviors of Kamigawa
Ravnica: City of Guilds - Guildpact, Dissension
Time Spiral - Planar Chaos, Future Sight
Lorwyn - Morningtide
Shadowmoor - Eventide
Shards of Alara - Conflux

Core sets are Alpha, Beta/Unlimited, Revised, 4th Edition, 5th Edition, 6th Edition, 7th Edition, 8th Edition, 9th Edition, or 10th Edition (X)


I'm not sure about the banned lists, but I think cards like Demonic Tutor, Tinker, Memory Jar and perhaps even Grim Monolith ought to be at least restricted.

Edit: Mind Twist, Sol Ring, Wheel of Fortune..

Edit2: Vampiric Tutor?

 

[Modus Pwnens]

All right, taking a look at the current list, I suggest the following cards to be either banned or restricted:

==Vintage==
Balance
Channel
Crop Rotation
Demonic Tutor
Fastbond
Frantic Search
Grim Monolith
Lotus Petal
Mana Vault
Memory Jar
Sol Ring
Tinker
Vampiric Tutor
Wheel of Fortune

==Legacy==
Earthcraft
Goblin Recruiter
Mind Twist


The following cards can be considered for banning/restriction (because they're banned/restricted in some format) but in my opinion are fair game.
Brainstorm
Gush
Mind's Desire
Regrowth
Black Vise

 

[Ransac]

I'm fine with those lists. I think Brainstorm, Gush, Mind's Desire, Regrowth and Black Vise are fine for this format. If I were to banned any of them, it'd be the Vise, but I'm fine with it.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Oversoul]

All right, taking a look at the current list, I suggest the following cards to be either banned or restricted:

==Vintage==
Balance
Channel
Crop Rotation
Demonic Tutor
Fastbond
Frantic Search
Grim Monolith
Lotus Petal
Mana Vault
Memory Jar
Sol Ring
Tinker
Vampiric Tutor
Wheel of Fortune

==Legacy==
Earthcraft
Goblin Recruiter
Mind Twist


The following cards can be considered for banning/restriction (because they're banned/restricted in some format) but in my opinion are fair game.
Brainstorm
Gush
Mind's Desire
Regrowth
Black Vise

I'd still rather just go with the Legacy banned list. I don't really feel like debating whether Crop Rotation or Lotus Petal might be broken in this format. And the same goes for Mind's Desire and Black Vise.

 

[Modus Pwnens]

I agree with you there, lots of cards are banned due to their synergy in the Vintage pool. However, I don't think that our format calls for complete bans, so what I would suggest that all cards on the Legacy banned lists are restricted, rather than banned.

This would leave us with the following restrictions:

-Balance
-Black Vise
-Channel
-Demonic Tutor
-Earthcraft
-Fastbond
-Frantic Search
-Goblin Recruiter
-Grim Monolith
-Gush
-Mana Vault
-Memory Jar
-Mind Twist
-Mind's Desire
-Sol Ring
-Tinker
-Vampiric Tutor
-Wheel of Fortune

Of this list, the only cards I can see unrestricted are:
-Black Vise
-Earthcraft (no Squirrel Nest, although I haven't checked thoroughly for a way to go infinite on this)
-Gush
-Mind's Desire (to do Oversoul a favour )

All other things would be too powerful, but aren't totally broken..

If we restrict the cards on the list, my deck is ready, else it'll still need some work

 

[Ransac]

In retrospect, it seems like it would simply be easier to just ban all the cards on these lists.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Modus Pwnens]

Nooes, don't ban the Tinker!!
Oh, did I say that out loud? I mean, I wouldn't play blue, would I?

 

[Ransac]

Personally, the cards I have the biggest problem with are Tinker and Memory Jar. IMHO, they HAVE to go.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Oversoul]

I agree with you there, lots of cards are banned due to their synergy in the Vintage pool. However, I don't think that our format calls for complete bans, so what I would suggest that all cards on the Legacy banned lists are restricted, rather than banned.

This would leave us with the following restrictions:

-Balance
-Black Vise
-Channel
-Demonic Tutor
-Earthcraft
-Fastbond
-Frantic Search
-Goblin Recruiter
-Grim Monolith
-Gush
-Mana Vault
-Memory Jar
-Mind Twist
-Mind's Desire
-Sol Ring
-Tinker
-Vampiric Tutor
-Wheel of Fortune

I am strongly opposed to this. Vintage is the format that restricts cards rather than banning them outright because it's the format where players are supposed to be able to use all of their cards. That's not what we're doing here. I think that what will happen when you allow the broken cards we should be just banning and playing without into this format with restrictions is that it will make things a lot more luck-based. Granted, luck will always be a factor, but let's not compound it unnecessarily. I have no desire to be playing a close game, and then lose all of the sudden because my opponent got his Fastbond. On the other hand, if we use the Legacy banned list, the format as it looks, without hindsight or even close analysis on my part, looks fairly balanced.