The "Let's Design a Set Together" Game

[Ransac]

I like the idea. It'll indeed be hard to not make it just "Blue or Non-Blue," but we'll find a way.

I'm not thinking about the C/U/R ratio yet. I'm just churning out ideas that I come up with. If we need to push in more commons, we can alter some cards to fit the common scheme.

Additionally, with this in mind, I'll alter the Elves as such:

~Sage Elf~
~Elves of Freakin' Paradise~
1G
T: Add G, R, B, or W to your mana pool
T: Add U to your mana pool. Sage Elf deals 1 damage to you.
1/1

Blue vs. Everybody Else, BUT it doesn't tell you to play either Blue or Non-Blue. This also connects with the "some dissidents or ancient stuff or fleeing armies probably still wander" concept that Limited stated, which is why I changed the concept name to "Sage Elf."

Additionally, with the concept of Blue "fleeing" from the other four, a theme of bouncing your creatures for benefits or "saving" them may be a wise move. Like a number of creatures with "U: Return this creature to your hand" or a spell that "Returns all/"any number of" creatures you control to your hand." For Example:

~Triumphant Retreat~
2UU
Instant
Return all creatures you control to your hand.


And even some self-made synergy within one color to take advantage of this.

~Bounce Advantage Card 1~
2UU
Enchantment
Whenever a creature you control is returned to your hand from play, you may return target creature an opponent controls to it's owner's hand.

~Bounce Advantage Creature 1~
2U
Creature - Wizard
Whenever a creature you control is returned to you hand from play, Draw a card.
1/1

OR, in mechanic form

~Bounce Advantage Creature 2~
U
Creature - Human
Retreat (If this creature is returned to your hand from play, Draw a card)
1/1


Thoughts?


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Ransac]

Great! I create more cards AFTER the list goes up!

Anyway, yes! we should have a separate thread for the approved cards.

Oh, and you forgot my Counter Enchantment in that list.

Also, I don't know who came up with the names for the Blue Evo cards, but I like them. Not sure of the Black Evo cards, though. Wolves seem more like a green creature to me.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Limited]

(insert mechanic name)(insert number)-If you paid (selected number) or more differant colors of mana to play this spell, you may (insert effect).

Very very very broad but its somehting to work off if you guys think its a good idea.

And the (insert effect) could be like the same for everything or there can be a unique effect for each spell. Or you might even have differant effects on differant cards but have like a cycle o creatures that allow you to search for another creature in the cycle to your hand and if you have all the creatures in that cycle out in play you get a certain effect or something like that..

Sorry I didn't respond to it sooner; it totally missed this post!

About the proposed mechanic: seems too similar to Sunburst..
Perhaps you can fit onto a card so we can have an example?

 

[Mooseman]

Oh, and you forgot my Counter Enchantment in that list.

Also, I don't know who came up with the names for the Blue Evo cards, but I like them. Not sure of the Black Evo cards, though. Wolves seem more like a green creature to me.

Sorry about that..... I'll add it.

The names are my idea, I was just trying to add something to spark peoples creativity...... and get rid of the generic names....

 

[Ransac]

I especially like the name "Fafnir", since I'm an opera buff (Fafner is the dragon/giant from the Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen (Ring Cycle) for those who don't know).

I agree with Limited. That mechanic is far too similar to Sunburst. If we include that ability, though, it probably shouldn't warrant a mechanic name.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Mooseman]

I especially like the name "Fafnir", since I'm an opera buff (Fafner is the dragon/giant from the Wagner's Der Ring des Nibelungen (Ring Cycle) for those who don't know).

Ha Ha HA...... that is why I picked the name........
I am researching the Norse mythos and trying to incorporate some of their ideas and themes into the names of this sets cards.

Question: Should we use the names as given or alter them slightly to make it only based on Norse mythos?

 

[Ransac]

We could do either. I have no preference.

Hmm.............. Is there anything in Norse Mythology that could warrant "Blue vs. The World"? If so, we may have found a storyline inspiration.


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[turgy22]

Personally, I don't like the idea of singling a color out. I liked Torment and Judgment, but the reason they worked was because it was in the context of the whole block. I'm a fan of the older sets, like Ice Age, Mirage, Tempest, where no one really cared about creating a theme and building around it. There was a healthy mix in each color and of gold cards and it seemed like no one worried about focusing on color. Just my opinion, but I thought I'd share.

Anyway, all this talk about fixing grizzly birds or elves of paradise or whatever made me think about fleshing out a whole 5-card cycle of elves. Two already exist, but here's the idea:
Llanowar Elves G
T: Add G to your mana pool.
1/1

Elves of Deep Shadow G
T: Add B to your mana pool. Elves of Deep Shadow deals one damage to you.
1/1

Tropical Elves G
T: Add U to your mana pool. This mana can only be used to play Instant and Sorcery spells.
1/1

Great Plains Elves G
T: Add W to your mana pool. Target opponent gains 1 life.
1/1

Elves of the Mountain G
T: Add R to your mana pool. Elves of the Mountain deals one damage to target creature you control.
1/1

I'm not sure if any of these would fit in with our set, but I thought it'd be fun to complete the 1/1 for G mana-producing elf cycle. I'm also not sure if all the abilities fit the best for each color.

 

[Ransac]

I'm not a fan of having so many 1cc mana producers in the same set. Regardless of the drawback, that is just nuts! I like the concept, but not all at once. These cards would obviously be common and imagine a draft of this! Green would dominate the board, as everybody would be assured one or two of these guys.

Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Mooseman]

Personally, I don't like the idea of singling a color out. I liked Torment and Judgment, but the reason they worked was because it was in the context of the whole block. I'm a fan of the older sets, like Ice Age, Mirage, Tempest, where no one really cared about creating a theme and building around it. There was a healthy mix in each color and of gold cards and it seemed like no one worried about focusing on color. Just my opinion, but I thought I'd share.

hmmm..... that makes sense too....... let's look at the cards we have and see if a theme is emerging, before we go down that road.



Gotta go with Ransac on the elves...... they are cool, but too much for one set.
Let's see if one or two fit in with this set and maybe hold the others for the next set(s)........

 

[Ransac]

Just following up on that "Fleeing" mechanic, it just makes sense to add a card that grants the mechanic.

~Retreat Enchantment~
All creatures you control gain Retreat (If this creature is returned to your hand from play, draw a card).

Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[turgy22]

I agree on the elves. I just wanted to throw the idea out there. Maybe use one for this set and push all the rest back. We'll see if anything fits in or feels right with the set. Another thought just sprung to mind:

Land of the Lost Elves G
T, discard a card: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
1/1

Sort of fits in with the whole landcasting theme. Could be nuts with madness, but I think the madness cost would have to be paid before you get your mana.


Moving on, I really like the retreat mechanic. I'm not sure about the enchantment that grants all creatures you control the retreat ability, but I like the rest of the cards. I think we could make a 5-6 card blue cycle using that. Maybe even poke into the allied colors. Here's some ideas:

Cowardly Djinn 4UU
Creature - Djinn
Flying, Retreat
5/5

Coward's Balloon 1U
Enchantment - Aura
Enchant Creature
Whenever enchanted creature becomes the target of a spell or ability, return ~ to its owner's hand.
Retreat

Cowardly Lion UW
Creature - Lion
Retreat
2/1

Cowardly Ghost BU
Creature - Ghost
Whenever ~ becomes the target of a spell or ability, return it to its owner's hand. That player loses 2 life.
Retreat
2/2

 

[Ransac]

Cowardly Ghost BU
Creature - Ghost
Whenever ~ becomes the target of a spell or ability, return it to its owner's hand. That player loses 2 life.
Retreat
2/2

Fixed to make sense of "That player"

Cowardly Ghost BU
Creature - Ghost
Whenever ~ becomes the target of a spell or ability, return it to its owner's hand. That spell's controller loses 2 life.
Retreat
2/2



Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[Mooseman]

Land of the Lost Elves G
T, discard a card: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
1/1

Sort of fits in with the whole landcasting theme. Could be nuts with madness, but I think the madness cost would have to be paid before you get your mana.

Except that landcasting is RFG, not discard.
how about:

Land of the Lost Elves G
T, Remove a card in your hand from the game: Add one mana of any color to your mana pool.
1/1

 

[Ransac]

"Pushing out Blue Spells"

~Black Anti-Blue Discard Spell~
BB
Instant
Target player reveals his hand. If there are any blue cards or islands in that opponent's hand, that player must choose and discard 2 cards. Otherwise, that player chooses and discards 1 card.

~Red Anti-Blue Burn Spell~ (Similar to Lightning Dart, but only for Blue)
RR
Instant
~this~ deals 2 damage to target creature. If that creature is blue, ~this~ deals 4 damage to it, instead.

~White Anti-Blue Life Spell~
WW
Instant
Prevent all damage from any one source. If that source was blue, gain life equal to the damage prevented.


I'm having a hard time trying to make ~Green Anti-Blue ? Spell~ Any goers?

Also, the black one seems a bit imbalanced. At first, I had it as a Sorcery that cost 1BB, but I noticed that the other spells were instants at CC, so I made the change to fit the cycle. Any tinkering?


Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[turgy22]

Fixed to make sense of "That player"

Actually, I intended it to hit the owner of the Ghost, sort of as a drawback to the additional card gained when it retreats. I also intended to give the ghost flying, but I was playing around with the power/toughness and forgot to put it back.

Cowardly Ghost BU
Creature - Ghost
Flying
Whenever ~ becomes the target of a spell or ability, return it to its owner's hand. Cowardly Ghost's owner loses 2 life.
Retreat
2/2

If you think the life loss is too much, maybe we could play around with the P/T ratio or drop it to 1 life, but I wanted to make sure the player drawing the card from retreat also takes the life hit.

 

[Ransac]

You know, I think what you have is nearly balanced. a 2/2 flier for CC is nothing to sneeze at. I WOULD put it down to losing 1 life though. But, I like this card.

Cowardly Ghost BU
Creature - Ghost
Flying
Whenever ~ becomes the target of a spell or ability, return it to its owner's hand and lose 1 life.
Retreat
2/2

Ransac, cpa trash man

 

[turgy22]

"Pushing out Blue Spells"

~Black Anti-Blue Discard Spell~
BB
Instant
Target player reveals his hand. If there are any blue cards or islands in that opponent's hand, that player must choose and discard 2 cards. Otherwise, that player chooses and discards 1 card.

~Red Anti-Blue Burn Spell~ (Similar to Lightning Dart, but only for Blue)
RR
Instant
~this~ deals 2 damage to target creature. If that creature is blue, ~this~ deals 4 damage to it, instead.

~White Anti-Blue Life Spell~
WW
Instant
Prevent all damage from any one source. If that source was blue, gain life equal to the damage prevented.


I'm having a hard time trying to make ~Green Anti-Blue ? Spell~ Any goers?

Also, the black one seems a bit imbalanced. At first, I had it as a Sorcery that cost 1BB, but I noticed that the other spells were instants at CC, so I made the change to fit the cycle. Any tinkering?

I like the cycle, but the black one should definitely be a sorcery.
For green, I'll try the obvious:

Green Anti-Blue Creature GG
Creature - Bear
Protection from blue.
2/2

Probably better ideas out there, but it seems to fit green.

 

[Mooseman]

Landcasting and RFG
Maybe one of the rules gurus can back me up on this, but I think abilities and effects based on cards removed from the game is really tricky. To the best of my knowledge all RFG cards are considered to be in the same "zone" as your sideboard or any other card you own for that matter. I think there's three possible solutions to this problem.
1) Specify that the cards must be removed from the game this game. I'm not sure how easy that is to keep track of and enforce this, but that's basically what we're trying to do in the first place.
2) Create a new zone. Perhaps call it the "void" or something. Again, it's purpose is to differentiate between a cards in the sideboard and cards removed from play during the current game.
3) Use the graveyard. I made landcasting RFG because I thought it would be too abusable with cards like Crucible of Worlds. But maybe playtesting will show that it's not that bad. This would really keep the rules in order and make the mechanics easier to understand, but then we might have too much of an Odyssey feel. Also, Mudhole would be fantastic sideboard tech.

So anyway, I'm not sure which way we should go, but I think we need clarification. I also love the cycle of "void" cards (more on them later) but I think we need to define the limitations a bit better in order to make them viable.

217.1e An object is outside the game if it’s in the removed-from-the-game zone, or if it isn’t in any of the game’s zones. All other objects are inside the game. Outside the game is not a zone.

I do believe that the sideboard is outside the game, but that does not put it in the RFG zone. When a Wish spell looks for cards outside the game, it is allowed to look at cards in the RFG zone.
The RFG zone is a sub set of outside the game, but outside the game is not a zone.

So I think we are okay on the landcasting and RFG cards.

Now someone prove me wrong....... again.

 

[Ransac]

I think that works. Yavimaya Barbarian is the same for RG, and Karoo Meerkat is 2/1 for 1G. I think that'll be fine.

Yeah, if green is a creature, then I'll just switch the black back to sorcery.



~Black Anti-Blue Discard Spell~
BB
Sorcery
Target player reveals his hand. If there are any blue cards or islands in that opponent's hand, that player must choose and discard 2 cards. Otherwise, that player chooses and discards 1 card.


~Red Anti-Blue Burn Spell~ (Similar to Lightning Dart, but only for Blue)
RR
Instant
~this~ deals 2 damage to target creature. If that creature is blue, ~this~ deals 4 damage to it, instead.


~White Anti-Blue Life Spell~
WW
Instant
Prevent all damage from any one source. If that source was blue, gain life equal to the damage prevented.


~Green Anti-Blue Creature ~
GG
Creature - Bear
Protection from blue.
2/2


Ransac, cpa trash man