Mindmaster format?

[Limited]

I thought it could be solved by adding these two rules:

• Whenever a player would draw a card, that player may skip that draw instead
• Whenever a player would draw a card, that player may take a basic land card from outside the game and put it into play.

But that still doesn't solve the Whirlpool problem..

(the second rule could also be:Whenever a player would draw a card, that player may take a basic land card from outside the game and put it into their hand. That way, you could also get some use from playing lands, discarding land cards etc).

 

[Spiderman]

Mooseman? What do you think?

So far it sounds like we all agree that the library should exist. But how those cards should be accessed seems to be the sticking point.

I like Limited's suggestion in parens, where instead of playing a land every turn, you just put it in your hand and have the option to play it whenever. Just gotta keep the hand sizes intact then. But I think "drawing" a land should be mandatory every turn, no "may".

 

[Limited]

Its not mandatory now.. What if you want to wait before playing your Keldon Firebombers?

 

[Spiderman]

Oh, I see, I missed that part too in the original rules. Well, I guess it's a "may" after all

 

[Mooseman]

Why not just say that you draw a card every turn, but not being able to draw a card doen't make you lose the game.
I don't like adding lands to your hand, and remember you only get 10 lands per game.

 

[Limited]

Another fun issue:
Do we have no maximumhandsize or is the maximum handsize 15?

 

[Mooseman]

Don't see why there has to be a max....

 

[Limited]

Thought Nibbler/Devourer?

 

[Mooseman]

No hand size makes that some good...... hehe
Really, there are only 11 cards that have hand size in the rules text.
I don't think that it really impacts the game that much.

 

[Spiderman]

I agree about not having a max/min hand size, but I'm still against having a draw against your library if there's a card there. It still makes card drawing cards basically useless since you'll just get it next turn. But I'll play that way if you guys want...

 

[Spiderman]

So... what'd we decide?

 

[Limited]

Well, we agree on having no maximum handsize.

I think we should try to stay close to the way the game was presented. So, no drawing whatsoever. If a card ends up in your library, its stuck there. And keep the original landrules..

• You may play one land from outside the game during your mainphase, and do this no more than ten times during a game
• If a spell or ability would let you search your library for a basic land card, you may take a basic land card from outside the game.

But we should add one rule, to deal with Whirlpool creatures. Or maybe they just get Mindmaster errata

 

[Spiderman]

I thought the original rules said any library manipulation cards were useless. So cards that put permanents on top of the libary are dead cards, right?

Similarly, the Whirlpool creature abilities are dead abilities.

But what about cards that say "draw x cards and discard y cards"? Do we recognize that the discarding is part of the drawing and ignore it all? Ignore the drawing but still discard?

 

[Limited]

The original article said you should hold true to the `spirit' of the card. Condemn would still remove an attacking creature, but it just couldn't be put on the bottom of the library (it was removed from the game instead i think)

But "draw and discard" cards turned into discard spells. Compulsive Research was the example he used.. so the rule would be

• Whenever a player would draw a card, that player skips that draw instead

This way, there are no draws ever.

 

[Mooseman]

So then no changes to the original rules regarding the library or card draws.
I thought we were going to change these?

 

[Spiderman]

We were discussing it, but I guess it's too complicated. Just keep the rules as they are.

That sucks about draw and discard spells, but I get why... more useless cards!

 

[Mooseman]

I like the idea of a library if something in game puts a card there and only draws initiated by a spell or ability.
What is the problem with that?

 

[Limited]

It would require a different rule for the 'gamedraw' and spell/abilty draws.. and, the impact on the game would be very small, as you would need some effect to put a card into your library (not many cards that do that) and you would need some card drawing effect.

But if you happen to get both of them (say, a Thalakos Mistfolk and a Fool's Tome) it would mean you get a very big benefit. Feels like ducttape.

 

[Mooseman]

Isn't card drawing supposed to be a big advantage?
This format makes it totaly useless.

BTW - your opponent could put a card in your library - memory lapse.
Right now, memory lapse is a counter spell for U...... very very good.

 

[Spiderman]

Actually, U1

Limited: I'm not sure why you think the draw rule has to be changed if only card effects can put or "take out" (i.e. draw) cards from the library.

• The "draw" rule stays the same - there is none.
• You can still take a land card from the land pile and play it on your turn, up to 10 times.
• If a card says put a permanent or hand on the library, that's fine.
• If a card says draw or look through library, if there are cards there, do it. Otherwise ignore.

What's the conflict? Basically the library is an "out of play zone" that can only be manipulated by cards.