Friday Afterschool D&D

[Killer Joe]

Starting last year, during the marching band/football season at the time between when the kids get out of school to the time they have to report to the band room to leave for the game I DM a 'one-shot' D&D v3.5 Adventure. It's usually a Level 1, five room dungeon following this format:

Rm. 1 - Entrance w/guard or obsticle
Rm. 2 - Some kind of puzzle or role-playing opportunity
Rm. 3 - Set back or NPC encounter
Rm. 4 - Big Battle
Rm. 5 - Reward and/or combat against the Boss (a Troglodyte or Bugbear)

I use the Starter Game and it's pre-generated characters; a halfling rogue, dwarf cleric, human fighter and an elf sorcerer. I also rolled up a few extra characters just in-case I get two more kids who want to play.

This year I've already had three adventures, the first two were really fun but we had one player who made the game a bit uneasy. The third game (last week) went ugly.

The same player really made it known that his game was about being the last PC to survive and that he wasn't a part of the party.........he used to play a lot of Star Wars, was that what Star Wars was about?

Anyway, he's a 16 year-old kid who's kind of a misfit and I've given him plenty of latitude during the games and excusing some of his outrageous behavior like when he checks a monster the first thing he wants to do is throw the monster's weapon at the other PC's or make the claim that since he killed the monster only he gets the treasure and XP's.

I need a little advice; kick him out or put more restrictions on the game as to curb his PC's actions like when a monster is destroyed it automatically dissapears along with all of it's weapons and booty.

some advice needed

 

[DarthFerret]

Here is the best I can come up with. If you have a single player becoming a problem in game or out of game with the group, this is what I do. I will pull that person aside and confront them on this. I do this so that they do not feel like they are being ganged up on, especially if the group agrees with me. I tell that person that the behavior has to stop immediately or he will no longer be a part of the gaming experience.

I did this once with a person in our group that was changing his die rolls when he thought no one was watching. I talked to him outside of the group and told him that if it continued, he would no longer be invited to play. It worked. He became a part of the group. No more cheating. I have another situation comming up soon in the group I currently have that is going to take a bit more delicate handling. I have a guy who uses his computer to look at his players handbook because he cannot afford to buy one. I understand this. However, he has taken to doing other things on it as well during combat when it is not his turn. This behavior is very distracting to me (DM) as well as to the others. I am going to try to sit down with him during this next week and explain the problem. If it persists, I will bring it up to the entire group and we will democratically decide what is to happen. The reason I am handling this situation in this manner is that this guy is a real good friend of mine. I do not want to chance losing the friendship over this.

Not sure if this was clear or not. My advice is to pull him off to the side and tell him straight up what the problem is and what you expect of him. Either he can do what is expected or he can't. Hope this helps ya out.

 

[Killer Joe]

Thanks. Pulling him aside is probably the best way to go.

 

[Mooseman]

Did you ever think about cursing the monster's weapons, or slipping a ring of clumsiness into the treasure? Have it written down to avoid questions of impartiality. The other players may get caught in the trap, but that is how they learn to play.

Remember gaming is a social activity and group dynamics have to be taken into consideration.

 

[Killer Joe]

"cursing"? Maybe I can have the weapons dissapate or crumble at the touch of a 'good' PC, That might work, too.

 

[Mooseman]

They don't have cursed weapons in 3ED? I remember one sword (in 2nd ED) that would make the player always be first into battle and only use itself to battle and it was a long sword -2..... minus 2..... making it harder to hit.....
Really messes with the character.........

 

[BigBlue]

Pulling him aside would be my suggestion as well. Let him know that the point of these games is for everyone to enjoy them... and his actions are not making it fun... So he has the choice of cleaning up his act, or not belonging to the playgroup.

There is no real effective way to manage poor sportsmanship within the game... since they're 16, you'll probably need to remind them more than once... And, I would recommend you reward good activity too.

 

[Killer Joe]

I think maybe I should start giving out XP's for good sportsmanship (role-playing), too.

 

[DarthFerret]

As a side note, more of a suggestion for you game format, in my games, I do not permit "party treachery". Thus, no one is allowed to have an evil allignment. No one is permitted to steal from another character, or assasinate, or turncoat. This helps promote a healthy group dynamic. I like the idea of cursing a weapon or two, however the player may recognize it as a direct attack against them if they are the only one with the behavior that puts them in the way of that type of trap.

Yes, in 3rd edition there were cursed weapons (very back of the magic items table, before relics and artifacts). In 4th edition, there is not as yet anything of that caliber, however, the game dynamics are still being hammered out.

 

[Mooseman]

I like the idea of cursing a weapon or two, however the player may recognize it as a direct attack against them if they are the only one with the behavior that puts them in the way of that type of trap.

But it does penalize that type of behavior, which is the point. My old DM used to do this a lot to discourage greed and keep thieves on their toes. Also, it's good to give the magi and clerics a way to identify cursed items. This promotes working as a group and relying on others to keep you out of trouble. Maybe, only the cleric can remove the curse and has to have a good reason to do so for the cursed player. It's good to ask players why their character is doing thing, make them evaluate their characters motives.

 

[DarthFerret]

Here is the way I see it. That would be a great way of handling it if it were a longer campaign. However, since KJ seems to be doing a series of little Mini adventures with different characters (which people don't even get a chance to flesh out for themselves), not sure that would work. Unless I am mis-understanding, each gaming session is a different group of characters and a different set of circumstances. The person playing the cleric this time may be the person playing the fighter next time. Am I understanding this correctly?

 

[Modus Pwnens]

These kind of things are hard to solve in a session, as the only way to interact with players is by throwing stuff at them. I'd say it's best to have a chat with the player, explaining that the way he plays makes the entire experience less enjoyable for other players, etc.
If he continues, upgrade your warning to a gameloss, let him not play for a week, and if he still continues you can give him a final warning, excluding him from play-sessions if he cannot be reasoned with.

Kids at that age (look at me talking now :$) can feel threatened, so perhaps it's good to investigate the reason behind his actions (ask any of his friends that play the game if they know why he behaves like that). I'm opposed to solving it ingame, as it isn't an ingame problem. If your Cleric is too powerfull (which happened to me), just upgrade the EL's or DC's a bit, if your steals from every NPC the party meets (turning them hostile), you can have him meet a mage that sets his hair on fire or something, but this is clearly something that has an out-of-game cause, which reflects on his gameplay. Is he always attacking the same PC?

If you know the reason behind his actions, it'll be a lot easier to find a solution that ensures a great afternoon for everyone.

 

[Killer Joe]

I believe his concept of the game is mis-directed, his personality has always been a "Me against the world" kind of thing which is why I asked why he'd want to play D&D with us. We do have a gathering of onlookers (some girls in the band) so that may be his motivation for his testosteric behavior (I made that phrase up ).

He doesn't single out any PC in particular but he tries to say he's playing his character's personality (which happens to reflect his own).

The games are One-Shot-Adventures but the characters remain the same and some are the pre-generated ones and I've allowed a few of the guys to make their own which brought up yet another problem. I let this guy roll his own ability scores (unsupervised) and he claims he rolled nothing lower than a 13,.....a 13!?!

He's got 2 18's and the rest are between that and 13 (only one 13).

I want them to do the Point-Buy system the next time they want to roll up new characters.

 

[DarthFerret]

Here is a good way of testing his gaming "mettle". I once had a character in a game that had stats that were way too high in my opinion. It overbalanced the rest of the party. I did a little DM fudge and brought out some creatures that do permanent ability drain. I did not allow them to drain more than a couple of points, but it did help balance out the character. One warning. If this kid gets the idea of you targeting him in this fashion, he may become a bit hostile (if what I understood from your previous comment is accurate). May help to hit someone else with it too. It will also help judge his reaction to a negative happening to his character since he seems to be using the aspect of role-playing personality to his advantage.

Still, I would opt for pulling him aside first and talking to him about his disruptive playing style. This should prevent most of the confrontations that may come about due to an in-game action on your part.

 

[Mooseman]

All the in-game things should be done at some point, no matter if you have a problem player or not. It's part of playing the game and learning that bad things happening can be fun, even more fun than good things, as long as you (as the DM) can be trusted. Don't just follow the module like a video game, react and adjust to the players actions and they will feel like they are really part of the adventure.
Talking to a disruptive player one-on-one is the first step....

 

[Killer Joe]

Yesterday went much better. I didn't pull the player aside but I did mention some 'rules' and one of them was that all monster's weapons and armor was "cursed". This made him visible upset but he kept quiet when the other players sighed in relief. I also said that I would roll all throwing saves at my disgression (again, only HE looked upset but said nothing).

At one point he was at the back of the party because he felt since they hadn't seen any monsters in the last two rooms that a big one was comming so he wanted to wait in the previous room and he was, of course, holding all of the cure light wound potions the party found on monsters earlier (he diplomacy checked everyone to get all three potions and won and I rolled the die, too for him ).

So since he stayed in the room by himself and didn't engage in combat against a Troglodyte I rolled for Wandering Monsters in that room every round because I said the battle was cauing enough noise to be heard in the next several rooms beyond the combat room. I got the 10% needed on the second round and he had to fight an Orc Warrior by himself and he asked if we could 'back-up' a little so his PC didn't go into that room. I said, "No".

After that there wasn't any trouble at all from him and again the group had fun and finally got a chance to spend money to upgrade, Cure Light Wound Potions were on the rise at the store!

 

[Spiderman]

Glad it worked out (so far)!