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DÛke
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No, I'm asking why you assume that. I've never heard of such crap before...so you might as well tell me why you think that...
No, I'm asking why you assume that. I've never heard of such crap before...so you might as well tell me why you think that...
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DÛke
Guest
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Right.
And I read an article that points out how the U.S. is a masked anarchy government based on lies....that it lies to its people in order to keep them shut...
Right.
And I read an article that points out how the U.S. is a masked anarchy government based on lies....that it lies to its people in order to keep them shut...
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DÛke
Guest
No, I'm just thinking about how much you ask for sources...yet you don't supply them yourself.
I honestly have read that the U.S. is just a masked-anarchy, but when did I ever say I believe in it? Never. It just goes to show that one shouldn't believe things right away.
That oil in Afghan is all over the place: remember when I said watch for a pattern when you're doing a research? It kept popping up more than anything else...
It doesn't really matter...you would make the U.S. seem clean and pure no matter what the government would do. Hey, I believe your government teaches you all to distrust everyone else, and makes you think that you're perfect. It's useless to discuss anything, because in your view, it seems...the U.S. cannot be guilty at all.
I'll stop right here...
I honestly have read that the U.S. is just a masked-anarchy, but when did I ever say I believe in it? Never. It just goes to show that one shouldn't believe things right away.
That oil in Afghan is all over the place: remember when I said watch for a pattern when you're doing a research? It kept popping up more than anything else...
It doesn't really matter...you would make the U.S. seem clean and pure no matter what the government would do. Hey, I believe your government teaches you all to distrust everyone else, and makes you think that you're perfect. It's useless to discuss anything, because in your view, it seems...the U.S. cannot be guilty at all.
I'll stop right here...
LOL... I supply a LOT of sources. It's just people seemed sick of me asking for them so why keep asking? And why provide?
And I still haven't seen anything about oil.
Perhaps it's a mistake, but I tend to rate stuff in mainstream newspapers a bit more highly than "other sources". And since it covered both sides, I can't see much bias in that.
And I still haven't seen anything about oil.
Perhaps it's a mistake, but I tend to rate stuff in mainstream newspapers a bit more highly than "other sources". And since it covered both sides, I can't see much bias in that.
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Gizmo
Guest
What are you rambling about, Duke - theres no significant oil production in Aghanistan, if there was the US would have been in there YEARS ago.
However Americans have a global reputation for xenophobia, and these discussions show that is at least a little deserved.
Oh, and virtually throughout the western world the 'mainstream media' has a marked right-wing bias. I tend to view anything I read in mainstream media as at least partially one-sided.
However Americans have a global reputation for xenophobia, and these discussions show that is at least a little deserved.
Oh, and virtually throughout the western world the 'mainstream media' has a marked right-wing bias. I tend to view anything I read in mainstream media as at least partially one-sided.
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DÛke
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I know Afghan has (not much) oil production...but...
http://www.atimes.com/global-econ/CJ06Dj01.html
You should watch the CNN, Gizmo...it'll make you puke even more...
I know Afghan has (not much) oil production...but...
http://www.atimes.com/global-econ/CJ06Dj01.html
You should watch the CNN, Gizmo...it'll make you puke even more...
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DÛke
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Spiderman, I keep saying I wont provide any more information...and then I do. No more...do it yourself.
They're at it now because now they have 9/11 as a great justification for overthrowing the government with such brute force...
Spiderman, I keep saying I wont provide any more information...and then I do. No more...do it yourself.
They're at it now because now they have 9/11 as a great justification for overthrowing the government with such brute force...
Gizmo said:
The conclusion wasn't arrived from the 5 people here, it's a reputation -- as in, "well-known already."
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Gizmo
Guest
Spidey, I can extrapolate that from 5 random people who are as good a divining rod into American society as I have. The repuation was not created by you 5 alone, but by the millions of your fellow countrymen who behave in a similar way to events happening outside the shores of their country.
CNN has a good reputation at getting information and pictures firsthand, but I wouldnt trust it's commentary, we have CNN news on our TV and we virtually never use it (I think only on Sept 11th and the aftermath did I watch it for any period of time). The BBC 24-hour News, on the other hand - accused during the Gulf and Falklands wars (and the death of the Queen Mother last month) of being unpatriotic by the right wing - is usually a more objective source. Reuters I have little experience of.
CNN has a good reputation at getting information and pictures firsthand, but I wouldnt trust it's commentary, we have CNN news on our TV and we virtually never use it (I think only on Sept 11th and the aftermath did I watch it for any period of time). The BBC 24-hour News, on the other hand - accused during the Gulf and Falklands wars (and the death of the Queen Mother last month) of being unpatriotic by the right wing - is usually a more objective source. Reuters I have little experience of.
- Bill Hicks
Somehow I'm just in a whimsical mood today... probably again because I don't really care about this.
DUke: You know, one link is great, but until you equal what I have provided in past threads, I will remain "unimpressed".
And again, I don't know how "these discussions" could show it's "well" deserved. We have me and arhar arguing one side against you. That's the American contingent. Gizmo and Ura are "foreigners", to the best of my knowledge. That's basically arguing that the CPA is speaking for all "casual" players since the majority of people here play "casual".
And I hate to say it, but it's a common saying that the only news is bad news. Who's really interested in the latest science fair award winner or who saved a dog off a tanker (which apparently was big news anyway). I'm not saying it's CNN's fault, I'm just saying that bad news is where news is.
DUke: You know, one link is great, but until you equal what I have provided in past threads, I will remain "unimpressed".
And that's a load of horse pucky because post-USSR pre-Taliban, they had AMPLE time to set up their own government or puppet or whatever. Which of course people would be complaining about them because of that instead of trying to let the Afghans govern themselves...
And again, I don't know how "these discussions" could show it's "well" deserved. We have me and arhar arguing one side against you. That's the American contingent. Gizmo and Ura are "foreigners", to the best of my knowledge. That's basically arguing that the CPA is speaking for all "casual" players since the majority of people here play "casual".
And I hate to say it, but it's a common saying that the only news is bad news. Who's really interested in the latest science fair award winner or who saved a dog off a tanker (which apparently was big news anyway). I'm not saying it's CNN's fault, I'm just saying that bad news is where news is.
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DÛke
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All that time, you think you have been arguing? No, you weren't. You were doing nothing. Every time something opposing the U.S. showed up, you asked for sources...and then you asked for more. Then, you just justified every source...you didn't do anything. And all that is quite humorous, since you rarely have provided any sources yourself...
It's pointless really. If Bush wants to nuke the whole Asian continent because his s*** didn't turn out too good today, he'd do it...and you, Spiderman, would sit here and find countless ways to justify it. That's sad...
People: inform yourselves!
All that time, you think you have been arguing? No, you weren't. You were doing nothing. Every time something opposing the U.S. showed up, you asked for sources...and then you asked for more. Then, you just justified every source...you didn't do anything. And all that is quite humorous, since you rarely have provided any sources yourself...
As for the CNN -- it's plain pathetic. Period. Compared to popular Eastern news stations like Aljazeera, the CNN is child's play. At least, Aljazeera covers *both* sides, and *then* you get to hear their biased opinion. The CNN sucks, and it's very government-based news-media that says what the government desires. Very dependent...very flawed. Anyone watching it, and anyone who takes it seriously might as well watch MTV...they have as much news as the CNN does...
It's pointless really. If Bush wants to nuke the whole Asian continent because his s*** didn't turn out too good today, he'd do it...and you, Spiderman, would sit here and find countless ways to justify it. That's sad...
People: inform yourselves!
This is too funny...
Yeah, I asked for sources, 'cause if you notice, not one time did I start any thread. Thus, as originators of the thread, I felt you had to provide your sources.
And I have provided way too many sources, compared to you guys. I even find it hilarious that y'all get so defensive when asked. "Oh no, he's asking for sources... he's asking me to justify why I posted this thread" Just too funny.
You know what? It's too true that the US helped make bin Laden the force he (was) today. Just like how we supported Noriega and gave CIA training to the <whichever>-wings of the death squads Latin America. Of course, I didn't see him railing against the US while we were giving him aid during the '80's... only after 1991 when the Saudi government allowed us on their soil. Oh, and then no mention of the Arab vs Arab conflict which sparked it all in the first place
And I just find it too funny that you think Bush would nuke anywhere. I didn't know the US was such a dictatorship... thanks for finally opening my eyes
Just too funny...
Yeah, I asked for sources, 'cause if you notice, not one time did I start any thread. Thus, as originators of the thread, I felt you had to provide your sources.
And I have provided way too many sources, compared to you guys. I even find it hilarious that y'all get so defensive when asked. "Oh no, he's asking for sources... he's asking me to justify why I posted this thread" Just too funny.
You know what? It's too true that the US helped make bin Laden the force he (was) today. Just like how we supported Noriega and gave CIA training to the <whichever>-wings of the death squads Latin America. Of course, I didn't see him railing against the US while we were giving him aid during the '80's... only after 1991 when the Saudi government allowed us on their soil. Oh, and then no mention of the Arab vs Arab conflict which sparked it all in the first place
And I just find it too funny that you think Bush would nuke anywhere. I didn't know the US was such a dictatorship... thanks for finally opening my eyes
Just too funny...
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DÛke
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What funny is how you don't ask any resources when Arhar posts anything...
You didn't know the U.S. is a dictatorship, yet you call yourself "American"? Just how un-informed are you -- exactly?
What funny is how you don't ask any resources when Arhar posts anything...
You didn't know the U.S. is a dictatorship, yet you call yourself "American"? Just how un-informed are you -- exactly?
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Gizmo
Guest
Ive got to say that I think Duke is speaking for himself most of the time. A whole hog of the things he says are simply wacko, as far as I`m concerned
My perspective, from a morality/conscience angle, is probably moderate left-wing (from a purely political level Im probably a communist). Duke goes way past that to seemingly holding the US in considerable disdain.
I dont do that, I am cynical about it`s motives, particularly so when there`s a Republican government. I also believe that virtually every media to come out of the US holds inherent Pro-US, anti-everyoe else bias - news, entertainment, films, plays, books... the lot.
I dont think that`s a deliberate thing, America seems to be a nation of patriots, it`s just unfortunate that America doesnt seem to have learnt the lesson the rest of the world learnt in 1939-1945... namely that Patriotism is one miniscule step from Nationalism, which is a purely destructive force ... and with the exception possibly of China, no other nation is quite so patriotic/nationalistic/xenophobic (the difference between the three is as much subjective as anything else) as the US.
America DOES run the world now - it`s economic, social, and political fingers are in virtually every pie in virtually every country - and yet this is also pretty much the only nation on earth who`s population is quite so introspective. If the US economic lobbies like something, anywhere in the world, it happens... and if they dont like something, it doesnt happen ... and yet the American people quite manifestly don`t give a damn so long as nothing happens to them.
Thats just the sort of community spirit we want to see from the society which can decide what happens anywhere in the world.
We can only hope you eventually learn to realise that patriotism is A Bad Thing. A wise man* once said "with great power comes great responsibility", but at the moment the US is oriented more along the lines of "with great power comes something to feel good about, and the opportunity to get more power".
Oh and the Bill Hicks quote was included because it was funny, not because it made a point about CNN.
* Spiderman, aka Stan Lee
My perspective, from a morality/conscience angle, is probably moderate left-wing (from a purely political level Im probably a communist). Duke goes way past that to seemingly holding the US in considerable disdain.
I dont do that, I am cynical about it`s motives, particularly so when there`s a Republican government. I also believe that virtually every media to come out of the US holds inherent Pro-US, anti-everyoe else bias - news, entertainment, films, plays, books... the lot.
I dont think that`s a deliberate thing, America seems to be a nation of patriots, it`s just unfortunate that America doesnt seem to have learnt the lesson the rest of the world learnt in 1939-1945... namely that Patriotism is one miniscule step from Nationalism, which is a purely destructive force ... and with the exception possibly of China, no other nation is quite so patriotic/nationalistic/xenophobic (the difference between the three is as much subjective as anything else) as the US.
America DOES run the world now - it`s economic, social, and political fingers are in virtually every pie in virtually every country - and yet this is also pretty much the only nation on earth who`s population is quite so introspective. If the US economic lobbies like something, anywhere in the world, it happens... and if they dont like something, it doesnt happen ... and yet the American people quite manifestly don`t give a damn so long as nothing happens to them.
Thats just the sort of community spirit we want to see from the society which can decide what happens anywhere in the world.
We can only hope you eventually learn to realise that patriotism is A Bad Thing. A wise man* once said "with great power comes great responsibility", but at the moment the US is oriented more along the lines of "with great power comes something to feel good about, and the opportunity to get more power".
Oh and the Bill Hicks quote was included because it was funny, not because it made a point about CNN.
* Spiderman, aka Stan Lee
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DÛke
Guest
...pardon me Gizmo, but frankly, I've set as much facts as you have, if not more...simply because I can read and understand both English and Arabic, I have sources you can't access.
Europeans are great, because they have a global sense about the world, not just themselves. Still, the U.S. is dealing its damages directly to the Middle East or some Muslim nation somewhere, not Europe...so excuse me when I say that I'm from the Middle East, and have experienced the whole drama deal. I'd be saying something that the whole world knows: Americans are full of themselves...and they're stubborn too. All because of the "happy" life they live; not many care about the world...why should they? And those intelligent enough to watch some news or something, they'd be getting it from the most biased point of view: the American view. You get generations upon generations growing up like that...and the result is what you see here, in the CPA, and in almost every other corner of the United States.
Gizmo, I understand why you think my opinion is "wacko," after all, no matter how much you know, it's not as good as living through the damn thing...it seems that I go to the extremes most of the time, but that's just because I've experienced more, or, know more. Quite frankly, I've lived through the damn thing, and seen it with my own eyes...that's gotta contribute to the way I understand things…
In any event, I assure you that you're not about to enlighten anyone. If you bring countless sources to Spiderman, he'll ask for more; the more you reveal, the more you'll be hated, so consider this a word of advice: save your breath for people who *want* to learn, not those who want to toy around with words and then end up justifying their causes…
Europeans are great, because they have a global sense about the world, not just themselves. Still, the U.S. is dealing its damages directly to the Middle East or some Muslim nation somewhere, not Europe...so excuse me when I say that I'm from the Middle East, and have experienced the whole drama deal. I'd be saying something that the whole world knows: Americans are full of themselves...and they're stubborn too. All because of the "happy" life they live; not many care about the world...why should they? And those intelligent enough to watch some news or something, they'd be getting it from the most biased point of view: the American view. You get generations upon generations growing up like that...and the result is what you see here, in the CPA, and in almost every other corner of the United States.
Gizmo, I understand why you think my opinion is "wacko," after all, no matter how much you know, it's not as good as living through the damn thing...it seems that I go to the extremes most of the time, but that's just because I've experienced more, or, know more. Quite frankly, I've lived through the damn thing, and seen it with my own eyes...that's gotta contribute to the way I understand things…
In any event, I assure you that you're not about to enlighten anyone. If you bring countless sources to Spiderman, he'll ask for more; the more you reveal, the more you'll be hated, so consider this a word of advice: save your breath for people who *want* to learn, not those who want to toy around with words and then end up justifying their causes…
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Ura
Guest
Well, I consider small arms against mechanized infantry to be little, I also consider teenage males throwing rocks to be little to inconsiquential. To say that a peson threw a rock at your tank or jeep or squad, so you shot him is just a HUGE overreaction, but its what I call little to no resistance.
Notice how the Isreali's are finding some of these arms caches but they are basically untouched. I would wager that most Palastinians don't even know about them because they're just ordinary people. If the kind of weapons in the caches were available to all the Palastinians then I doubt Isreal could have just walked in as they did.
Incidentally there have only been 23 Isreali casualties as confirmed by the Isreali government.
Well since 9/11 Isreal hasn't done anything that it seriously considered for more then token movements to sooth the US and other world powers. Mind you if we decide to just take a small chunk of history like that we could say that the US is unlawfully occupying a foreign country without reason because there haven't been any big terrorist attacks since say . . . Christmas. You have to look at the full scale in situations like these because so much of the past is what is causing the future.
Desperation, dedication to their cause, an honorable sacrifice to slay an enemy and secure a place in paradise for themselves and their family, (as their belief goes.) I get what your saying, it just wasn't the area I was talking about. point made.
You'd be surprised at what people don't notice. Just walking down the street, can you remember how many sports cars passed you, or how many people were say wearing a baseball hat. Was there a bird singing in the air, were there worms on the sidewalk from a fresh rain. People really don't notice all that much in the world around them, its worse in north america then other places, but if a little guy crawl under a car to duct tape a bomb to the frame and take 2 mintues to wire it in, its highly unlikely anyone will notice unless theres a police officer or soldier right there. Common civilians just don't put two and two together alot of the time.
This is true, but its pretty much impossible for Palastinians to have a clean record against Israel since its the original jewish settlers to the area that technically invaded them for a homeland with some world support. There was no more violence against them in the arab lands in the 20's then there was anywhere else with the possible exception or the US or Canada.
Sure they did, when it was clear who owned the dirt they standing on. Now thats basically the core of why they started fighting.
They've been resisting from other countries as well as Palastine as parts of other groups and in some cases military orginizations. The day after Israel was formed it was attacked by it neighbors, that should have been a sign right there.
Yeah, so the idea worked and they'll go prey on less fortified aircraft.
Yes it has.I still disagree about trying to label both terrorism but I'm sure this has been beaten into the ground
This is true, the US is known for having a slightly xenophobic population. The only thing that pulled them out of it remember were the world wars.
I would hardly call myself a "foreigner" as I'm only Canadian. Not that different from being an American sometimes. Then again . . .
Perhaps you get a different CNN then I do because whenever I've bothered to watch it lately its constantly had nothing but showing support for the Palastinian people and trying to show what a tyrant Isael has been, which is the opposite of Dubya's government policy. The worst thing about CNN is that they get some of the worst commentators I've ever watched. Their program Crossfire tends to be more comedy then debate alot of the time.
He hasn't been doing this with me, even though I'm debating the opposite side from him.
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DÛke
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You either haven't gotten to it yet, and maybe you never will...but the thing is, your whole conversation will end with no change in opinions whatsoever. Why argue, when you know you will not convince anyone (and I assure you, you will not convince anyone) no matter how right you think you are? Sorry Ura, that's just the way I see it...and I've read all you had to say: all very well put together...but it's a waste of your time...