We're all racist, sexist *******s!

[Mooseman]

Maybe they pinned the moniker "Waffle" on Clinton..... It's just political catch phrases, mostly meaningless, but used with the old adage, "if you say a lie long enough and loud enough, people will start to believe it's the truth".......
Unfortunately, it works..... people in large groups usually turn into idiots.....

 

[Killer Joe]

"Barack-Star" bandwagoning

 

[EricBess]

I'm not taking offense and I hope no one's taking offense at me - I believed I said earlier I don't follow either candidates, so I'm curious, in what ways has Hillary "flip-flopped"? And her opponents haven't done the same thing so she's the only one?

Likewise, I haven't taken any offence and hope no one has with me. One of the things I've always appreciated about this sight is that everyone is allowed to have their opinions and express them. Personally, I recall several "discussions" that would have been considered heated in different settings, but here we all realized that there was a fundimental agreement to disagree at the core and we walked away commenting about how much we all enjoyed the discussion. I see this discussion in much the same light.

Granted, there have been a few notable exceptions to those attitudes

Anyway, Spidey - to answer your question. I don't believe I personally used the term "flip-flop". Someone else might have, but I think that I might have started that line of thought with my comments on her reinventing herself, so allow me to clarify what I am talking about.

I'll give a counterexample first. People accused Romney of flip-flopping because of his views on abortion. But, if you look at what he said, he has always maintained his stance against abortion (except in very specific circumstances). What he did say is that as a public official, it was his role to uphold the law and the current law was that abortion was legal. Like you say, the term "flip-flop" was cast around quite a bit.

Like you, I don't like the term and it can be used for almost anything. I was talking about her reinventing herself. The easiest example I can think of for what I'm talking about wasn't her, but was Joe Leiberman. Prior to becoming Al Gore's running mate, there was concern because he was Jewish. To countermand that concern, he effectively got up and said that he was no longer Jewish. Either he didn't have conviction or he did and denied it. I don't like that.

Hillary has been more subtle, but I personally feel that she has used a lot of the same tactic. If she's "stand-by-your man" woman that she was during Bill's reign, where is he now? I've everyone's spouse out supporting them except Bill. Now, I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that it's not because he's unwilling to come along. I suspect they decided politically that it would be better to distance herself from him. I just always get the impression listening to her that her persona is defined by who she is speaking to.

Yes, all candidates do that to a degree, but it seems far more exagerated with her to the point where I personally don't have a good feeling about who she is or what she stands for.

Hope I haven't offended anyone inadvertantly I essentially agree with EricBess and just wanted to let you know what it's like from outside the US.

Interesting comments. I'm curious to know if people outside the US generally follow the issues or if they just want to see something different because they don't necessarily like what is going on now. I suspect that its that same as it is here (if we admit it) - the great majority don't really give it much thought. Personally, I respect everyone's opinion (whether I agree or not) as long as they actually have an opinion and aren't just being a sheep.

 

[DarthFerret]

Ok, very rarely have I ever entered a political debate or discussion on here because I know that I am in the minority on this forum. However, let me through a couple of things at ya guys from a Texan's point of view.

#1. GWB is actually a very intelligent guy. His 2 biggest downfalls are his poor choices in advisors/appointments, and his complete and total lack of public speaking skills. As a professional speaker I can tell you this, if you put a camera or microphone in front of his face, he immediately becomes a babbling idiot. That aside, he has done a fair job with what he has had to work with. (I bet he reads more books a year than 90% of us on this site)

#2 Will someone please explain to me the exact differences between Obama and Clinton aside from gender and race. I am refering to policies. Hmm..National Healthcare (umm...I call BS on this...why should I keep having to pay for the lazy Katrina refugees on Medicaid who have taken 3 years on welfare and still have not found a job?), Foreign Policy (excuse me Mr. Hitler, I did not mean to offend you and your nation, we will just go home with our tail between our legs and call it a draw), Economic reform (It goes up, It goes down, We will occasionally have a recession, hmm..sounds like free trade to me...), and social policies (sorry, would prolly offend too many if I voiced my real opinion here...heh).

#3 Someone please tell me how McCain is holding to conservative values. (I mean it...he is a liberal running on the Republican Ticket....how in the world did that happen?)

#4 Please tell me exactly how a President (and only the president) has made any kind of direct change to anything that affects my daily lives since The New Deal. I really don't think that a president alone can really do that much to us as a whole. It takes more than just one person to enact anything from policies to defense. Everyone is so hyped up on the presidential bid, that they tend to ignore the House, the Senate, and even thier State and Local Governments.

Ok, Said my piece. Bring on the hate! Heh heh.

(Just kidding about the hate)

 

[Mooseman]

DF- Ransac hates you.... ph wait, that wasn't spam????

Actually, a president brings in an administration that makes many policy and decisions that affect you indirectly.... rules and regulations for trade and commerce, appointments (and firings) of federal judges, etc.
The president and his admin are supposed to give congress direction and guidence.

I for one feel GW dropped the ball in many respects, mostly in the poorly planned and executed war in Iraq.... they didn't foresee this long of a campaign and said so many times. Also, the reasons for the war were not clear cut and intel was incorrect.... if you are going to start a war, you need to be sure of your intel, the excuse that it was the best at the time is not good enough for our commander if chief. You can't blame that on congress.

OK the rant is over..... well not yet.

Plese don't take offense to my rant, it is just my poor old opinion.....

 

[turgy22]

I might have started that line of thought with my comments on her reinventing herself

People accused Romney of flip-flopping because of his views on abortion.

I'm not trying to call you out here, but these two statements make me believe that you let bias cloud your judgment with respect to political candidates. You accuse Clinton of "reinventing" herself (and I'm sure she has) but then defend Romney for doing the same. The accusations against him had more to do with just his stance on abortion. While governor of Massachusetts, he was considered a moderate conservative... much like McCain. But then when he decided to run for president, his campaign staff thought he needed to galvanize the deep conservative core voters, so they cast an image of him as a more conservative candidate than his record indicated hoping to garner more votes. It's almost the perfect example of reinventing oneself.

I'm not trying to attack Romney here, because I understand that all politicians do this. In 2000, the Bush campaign tried to label him as a "compassionate conservative" despite the fact that his record number of Texas executions certainly didn't seem compassionate. And his policies as president haven't been any different. The only guys running in 2008 that haven't tried to alter their image in the slightest over the past 10 years are probably Nader and Huckabee.

Hmm..National Healthcare (umm...I call BS on this...why should I keep having to pay for the lazy Katrina refugees on Medicaid who have taken 3 years on welfare and still have not found a job?),

Can you explain what national healthcare has to do with "lazy Katrina refugees?" I'm sorry, I'm just really confused by this statement. It's one thing to be opposed to national healthcare and another to feel the Katrina victims should be doing more to help themselves, but I'm just not seeing the connection.

Foreign Policy (excuse me Mr. Hitler, I did not mean to offend you and your nation, we will just go home with our tail between our legs and call it a draw),

Umm... once again, I'm not seeing the connection between foreign policy and Hitler. Can you explain this?

Economic reform (It goes up, It goes down, We will occasionally have a recession, hmm..sounds like free trade to me...),

I actually agree with you on this one. Everyone likes to blame recessions on the president, but they usually have nothing to do with each other. The economy is cyclical; it'll bounce back. The only thing politicians can do about recessions is try to minimize their impact. I don't know enough about economics to argue one way or the other, so I'll leave it at that.

#3 Someone please tell me how McCain is holding to conservative values. (I mean it...he is a liberal running on the Republican Ticket....how in the world did that happen?)

You'll have to ask the Republicans; they're the ones that voted for him. I think you're confusing the term "liberal" with "more liberal than me." McCain is a moderate. Just because his values are more centrist than yours doesn't make him a liberal. He's much more conservative than Clinton or Obama.

#4 Please tell me exactly how a President (and only the president) has made any kind of direct change to anything that affects my daily lives since The New Deal. I really don't think that a president alone can really do that much to us as a whole. It takes more than just one person to enact anything from policies to defense. Everyone is so hyped up on the presidential bid, that they tend to ignore the House, the Senate, and even thier State and Local Governments.

Agreed again, mostly. That's why I'm generally for a mixed government: no one party with control of congress and the white house. However, the president does have more power than any other individual in office. When they control the flow and content of information coming from our intelligence agencies, they can sway a lot of other people toward getting their way. Just look at the war in Iraq. The White House cherry-picked its information to get the majority of the country (and parts of the world) to believe that Iraq was a serious imminent threat. Then when we actually got there, we realized it was wrong. Support for the war has gone from about 70% five years ago to about 30% now. Perhaps 40% of the people in the U.S. are flip-floppers, or perhaps the president has a significant amount of clout in order to push certain agendas.

Ok, Said my piece. Bring on the hate! Heh heh.

Consider it done.

(Just kidding about the hate)

Oops, sorry.

 

[Spiderman]

If she's "stand-by-your man" woman that she was during Bill's reign, where is he now? I've everyone's spouse out supporting them except Bill. Now, I could be wrong, but I'm guessing that it's not because he's unwilling to come along. I suspect they decided politically that it would be better to distance herself from him.

This is an odd statement, since I understand it was Bill's remarks while he was supporting Hillary in the past month or so that apparently brought "race" into the fight between her and Obama. Maybe he was absent before that and that's what you're referring to?

His 2 biggest downfalls are his poor choices in advisors/appointments

I guess this depends on who you talk to, but I remember early in his presidency that people said one of his strengths one to surround himself with people who knew what they were doing or strong in those areas where Bush was weak. Maybe hindsight is 20/20?

why should I keep having to pay for the lazy Katrina refugees on Medicaid who have taken 3 years on welfare and still have not found a job?

Like turgy22, I'm also confused on the relationship here, but frankly, I think the government ought to get off its oink and take care of New Orleans/Mississippi/Alabama/all areas affected by Katrina ASAP. Going this long without doing so is ridiculous...

It takes more than just one person to enact anything from policies to defense. Everyone is so hyped up on the presidential bid, that they tend to ignore the House, the Senate, and even thier State and Local Governments.

Mooseman and turgy22 kinda covered most of the important points about the relationship and why they're connected, but in addition, as part of the "checks and balances", the president signs the laws that Congress passes. If a party controls both areas, it's a lot easier in general for their policies to pass.

 

[DarthFerret]

This is an odd statement, since I understand it was Bill's remarks while he was supporting Hillary in the past month or so that apparently brought "race" into the fight between her and Obama. Maybe he was absent before that and that's what you're referring to?

Actually, not sure how many people are aware of this, but Mr. Clinton has been campaigning for his wife all throughout Texas for the past week or so (maybe longer). Today I believe he is due in Austin and Waco (If I heard the news report correctly).

Like turgy22, I'm also confused on the relationship here, but frankly, I think the government ought to get off its oink and take care of New Orleans/Mississippi/Alabama/all areas affected by Katrina ASAP. Going this long without doing so is ridiculous...

ok, couple of things here. It is my opinion that the reason most people think we need national healthcare is because there are a lot of individuals out there that do not have any at this current time. There is a simple solution to this. Get a well-paying job. Many may argue that this is not easily accomplished, however, even myself with my High School Diploma and minimal college (do not have a degree, and have never had employment that depended on college experience) has found employment that has provided me with benefits including healthcare. If someone is in a field in which they do not recieve healthcare benefits, then maybe they should consider changing employment, if this is a major concern.

My reference to the Katrina victims was the fact that, here in Houston, my past position within my company had me dealing with them on a regular basis. They have come to me with G'vt checks issued to pay for the training that I provided to assist them in seeking employment. This is still happening today. How in the world does it take someone over 3 years to get a job. The longest I have gone (while actively seeking) is 2 weeks. While they have been sitting around in their FEMA issued trailers, living on welfare/FEMA funding, they could have gotten a job. Even a job with McDonalds (or pick your low end employment) within 3 years should have netted a person a assistant management position with some benefits availible. I have worked in the restaurant industry for several years, and always had healthcare availible, if I choose to take it.

I have seen the result of FEMA and Gv't aid, and while it was not perfect by any means (not disputing that at all) it did attempt to help those affected by the storm.



I have no dispute on the organization of power of president and congress as stated by everyone else. I think it is a good system of checks and balances (or at least as good as I can concieve such a system to be), and that is why I stated that people should be at least equally interested in their Senate, House, State, and Local elections.

Dunno if this clarified anything or not, but it is hard to respond to this much at one setting (my mind is not that quick and organized...heh heh).

If not, I can try to elaborate on a single case-by-case basis, and if I missed anything, sorry, I will address it if brought up in a further post.

 

[Killer Joe]

Do "X". There, it's done!

Q:Next problem, how do we get rid of the asteroid that's gonna hit the earth in 2012?

A: Make it go away.

Geezsh, I never realized things were this easy to fix!

Q: How do I win every Magic game I play?

A: Play good.

....any more solutions?

 

[EricBess]

Hmm...Well, I don't claim to be the most "on top of things" politically speaking, but I personally haven't seen any indication of Bill Clinton for quite some time and certainly not in relation to Hillary's campaign. Perhaps I just don't live in the right states to see it happen.

turgy - please don't misunderstand. I also said that all politicians change their minds (flip-flop) and they all reinvent themselves to one degree or another. I think we are on the same page there. I don't claim to be unbias anymore than I think anyone can who has a strong opinion. I believe that the difference between Hillary and Mit are about core values. I know what Romney's core value are, but I personally don't with Clinton because she doesn't seem to stand for anything. I'm not just talking about changing labels. Again, perhaps this goes back to the fact that I understand where Romney is coming from and I really don't relate with where Hillary is. Perhaps if my own personal views coincided more with hers, I wouldn't feel that way because I would understand better what it was she stood for.

 

[turgy22]

EB: I see what you're saying. Fair enough.

Q: How do I win every Magic game I play?

A: Play good.

What happens when your opponent plays gooder? The correct answer is 1) cheat 2) play against others much worse than yourself 3) use over-powered decks. Come to think of it, even doing that, you still won't win every game of Magic you play.






Loser.

 

[Budget Player Cadet]

Actually, If you use a deck with the power nine and yawgmoth's will meant to win on turn one or a flash/hulk deck that's gonna win on turn 0, then you're probably going to win every game in the metagame that I play in (that's why I don't use Flash/Hulk that often with my pals, only when I'm depressed).