Well, I've never...

[Mooseman]

Train is up and needs to answer


(5) train
(5) DarthFerret
(6) Melkor
(5) EricBess
(5) Rokapoke
(4) Spiderman
(4) turgy22
(7) Oversoul
(5) Mooseman

 

[EricBess]

Just realized that Spidey didn't give my point back from his question. I got all of my Ravinica from judge support, so I should have 6 points I don't have any illusions of keeping them very long, but I might as well hold onto them while I can.

 

[train]

Married... (4)


(4) train
(5) DarthFerret
(6) Melkor
(5) EricBess
(5) Rokapoke
(4) Spiderman
(4) turgy22
(7) Oversoul
(5) Mooseman

I had to do some serious thinking here... but...

I have never owned an Apple/Macintosh product... (no Mac PCs, iPods, iPhones, software, not even iTunes and Quicktime etc.)

As a matter of fact - I just dissed Quicktime again the other day... anything requiring Quicktime for use, I simply disregard, and don't view...

 

[turgy22]

Does a free download of Quicktime count? Technically, I don't think I own it. Other than that, I actually pass this one.

 

[rokapoke]

Yeah, I'll lose my point here. But I'll enjoy typing this on my Mac, listening to my iTunes library.

 

[Oversoul]

Does a free download of Quicktime count? Technically, I don't think I own it. Other than that, I actually pass this one.

I don't think having a free download of Quicktime counts (because yeah, you don't own it). As for me, I'm trying to think of anything and nothing comes to mind. I think I had Quicktime on my old computer maybe, but I might even be getting it mixed up with Realplayer or something...

 

[DarthFerret]

I actually pass this one too. My church has a mac, and I was forced to use it when I did the Powerpoint stuff, but that right there convinced me not to get one. Never had an Iphone (although I want one), never had an ipod (my wife has an RCA thingy, but not by apple/mac), and I never use quicktime. Windows Media Player all the way.

Yay, I keep a point (finally)

 

[Spiderman]

Just realized that Spidey didn't give my point back from his question. I got all of my Ravinica from judge support, so I should have 6 points I don't have any illusions of keeping them very long, but I might as well hold onto them while I can.

I never gave the point back because you never answered my question in post #70 about whether you bought Ravnica or what...

I lose a point for Apple/Mac products... love my iPod and iTunes... and I grew up playing on an Apple ][+ computer...

My take on the question is that if the software resides on a computer you own, then yes, you "own" the software; it being free has nothing to do with it. You had to install it and click through the user agreement (hopefully), so it's yours.

However, since the question states "own" and not "use", if you've used the software on someone else's computer, then you're okay.

 

[turgy22]

My take on the question is that if the software resides on a computer you own, then yes, you "own" the software; it being free has nothing to do with it. You had to install it and click through the user agreement (hopefully), so it's yours.

I don't see it that way, though I think that is how train intended it. With freeware, it's like something that's just being used. It has no value, since you can't sell it (anyone can get it for free).

For example, I wouldn't consider myself as "owning" MTG Online, because it's just an interface to play the game online. It's there for anyone and easy to add or remove to any computer. However, I would consider myself as owning all the cards in the account, since I paid for them and no one else can access them and they actually have real-life value if I wanted to sell them. I look at Quicktime the same way - it's just an interface to watch videos in a certain format.

 

[train]

Yeah - even trying to clarify as much as I could - I viewed it as not on personal belongings... for a pc example, if you own the item, I viewed you owned what's on it.

I had to use the Apples in elementary school - so I used "own" specifically.

But, interpretation is a key factor.

 

[turgy22]

Because I am this anal about keeping my point:

1. General. The software, documentation and any fonts accompanying this License whether on disk, in read only memory, on any other media or in any other form (collectively the "Apple Software") are licensed, not sold, to you by Apple Inc. ("Apple") for use only under the terms of this License, and Apple reserves all rights not expressly granted to you. The rights granted herein are limited to Apple's and its licensors' intellectual property rights in the Apple Software and do not include any other patents or intellectual property rights. You own the media on which the Apple Software is recorded but Apple and/or Apple's licensor(s) retain ownership of the Apple Software itself. The rights granted under the terms of this License include any software upgrades that replace and/or supplement the original Apple Software product, unless such upgrade contains a separate license.

 

[train]

I understand - and I checked an EULA - but that's why it's interpretation that makes a big difference.

If you obtained software without a proper license - should you be penalized for having it - gets into DRM, copyright, etc.

 

[Spiderman]

I don't see it that way, though I think that is how train intended it. With freeware, it's like something that's just being used. It has no value, since you can't sell it (anyone can get it for free).

For example, I wouldn't consider myself as "owning" MTG Online, because it's just an interface to play the game online. It's there for anyone and easy to add or remove to any computer. However, I would consider myself as owning all the cards in the account, since I paid for them and no one else can access them and they actually have real-life value if I wanted to sell them. I look at Quicktime the same way - it's just an interface to watch videos in a certain format.

Not to belabor the point because it is about interpretation and it's just a game , but whether something has value or not has no bearing on ownership.

I offer you my commons for free and you accept and I send them to you. I no longer own them and you do.

I would argue that you own a "copy" or "license" of MTG Online; you don't own the software itself and can't make coding changes or reverse-engineer the code, but the software itself resides on your machine. I would bet the EULA says something to that effect.

 

[train]

Not to belabor the point because it is about interpretation and it's just a game , but whether something has value or not has no bearing on ownership.

I offer you my commons for free and you accept and I send them to you. I no longer own them and you do.

I would argue that you own a "copy" or "license" of MTG Online; you don't own the software itself and can't make coding changes or reverse-engineer the code, but the software itself resides on your machine. I would bet the EULA says something to that effect.

there are clauses that note that even when the product is discontinued, dissolved, etc. that those with previous licenses can continue to use those previously installed, but should not install on any new machines, etc. I wonder at that time, who would "own it"...

"Software... abandoned... is there an orphanage for that?"

 

[Melkor]

Well, software can be a good, service or license. The Supreme Court has basically stayed out of this question, so it really depends on interpretation and what jurisdiction you are in. As it stands, I'm pretty sure Quicktime was on an old computer of mine, not that I ever used it, but it was there. I'm clean otherwise, so however that shakes out, put me down appropriately.

Also, it appears that I got docked a point for the marriage question when I should not have been.

 

[rokapoke]

Also, it appears that I got docked a point for the marriage question when I should not have been.

That was just Mooseman's way of popping the question... subtle.

 

[EricBess]

I never gave the point back because you never answered my question in post #70 about whether you bought Ravnica or what...

Yep, I realized that when I went back over it. Somehow I missed that the first time around. But yeah, being an active level 3 gives you a ton of cards, never had to buy any of it.

 

[EricBess]

Could I offer a potential middle-ground on the "owning software". Could we focus on "use" when it comes to the software aspect.

Me - I've never had a mac, never had an ipod (though 3 of my children do), never had an iphone.

Here's my "issue" with the software...I know that Quicktime is installed on my computer and I'm pretty sure that it's been used automatically by certain websites and such, but I have never actively used Quicktime, nor have I ever really thought about whether I was using it, so I cannot consider myself to have Quicktime in that sense. I'm guessing turgy is in the same boat, never deliberately installing and never really thinking about whether or not he's using it. train did say he actively avoids it, but since most people don't, it's hard to know really and has to be left up to each person whether or not they consider themselves to have it.

iTunes...on the other hand...I installed a while back because my wife had a list of songs she wanted to make a disk of and so we picked up an iTunes card so I could put that together for an anniversary present. So I cannot say that don't have iTunes and I end up losing a point because train was so darn specific...

 

[Mooseman]

I lose a poijnt since I did buy a Mac clone that had Mac OS8 on it.....
Melkor, will you marry me?????
Give him his point back.......

 

[DarthFerret]

Ok, maybe it is cause it is so late at night, but I lost track of who has what points (due to the give this point back and the technicality issues). If someone more focused than me can set the point values again, i will follow up with my turn.