Texas TSA Hates Peircings!

[DarthFerret]

Did anyone see the news about the Texas TSA today?

They are getting sued by a woman that went through an airport security device at the airport in Lubbock, TX on her way to Dallas, TX. The thing dinged, and she was pulled aside and wanded. The wand dinged when it came in proximity with her breast region. She then informed the TSA officials (there were 2 men) that she had nipple rings. They told her that she would have to remove them. She went behind a screen and one came off easily, but the other was stuck (not sure how that happens). They made her take a pair of pliers and rip it out. She did start bleeding at that point.

At one point before any of the removal happened, she had asked if a female TSA officer could check to see that they were indeed nipple rings, and she was told no, that they would have to come out.

Ok, here is what I want to ask, now that the groundwork is laid out. Should our security measures be so stringent that this woman would have to remove any piercings that are hidden and would be considered "indecent" to show to a male official? Or, do you beleive, as I do, that this woman should at the very least, have been visually inspected by a female officer, or just left alone?

Without trying to bring up racial issues, I do want to say that she was caucasian. Of the last 18 terrorists, none of them were caucasian, and 16 of them were of a middle-east background.

Where exactly does the security of the nation (or of a group of its population) cross the line of a person's personal freedom?

Disclaimer: I personally do not agree with piercings of the body, and do not advocate this path to anyone who wishes to have a long and successful carrer, however I also advocate that a person has the right to do to themselves whatever they would like to. (that includes smoking)

 

[rokapoke]

My personal feelings on piercings aside (I'm with you, DF), I feel that the requirements for the security checkpoints is that you remove all metal from your person. All removable metal, so as to exclude a plate in one's head and such. If that is the true standard, then she should by all means be required to remove the rings.

That said, if one of the rings is not cooperating, then I believe that she should've been given the opportunity to be inspected by a female official and passed on that basis.

 

[turgy22]

Link to Story

I read this earlier today and nothing about it makes sense. First, the story mentions that there were female officers present (which I believe is required by law for such occasions), so why couldn't they examine her? She also was not offered a pat-down, which, according to the TSA rules, is an acceptable alternative. Finally, the story states that she intends to have them re-inserted. Who needs nipple rings that badly? Judging by her age, she certainly shouldn't be showing them off to anyone.

Overall, though, it sounds like a couple of TSA officers just felt like being jerks. I'm guessing a couple people get fired for this and Miss Hamlin makes off with a hefty chunk of change.

 

[Spiderman]

I just read this myself on a separate site before coming to this thread and a) totally believe whatever someone wants to do with their body is their business and b) visual inspection should have been enough. Unless people with all sorts of piercings like tongue, naval, etc need to remove their stuff, she shouldn't have had to remove hers.

 

[Killer Joe]

A simple escort to the private room for a female inspector to look should've been enough.

 

[Oversoul]

They are getting sued by a woman that went through an airport security device at the airport in Lubbock, TX on her way to Dallas, TX. The thing dinged, and she was pulled aside and wanded. The wand dinged when it came in proximity with her breast region. She then informed the TSA officials (there were 2 men) that she had nipple rings. They told her that she would have to remove them. She went behind a screen and one came off easily, but the other was stuck (not sure how that happens). They made her take a pair of pliers and rip it out. She did start bleeding at that point.

So she couldn't pull her own nipple ring out and caused bleeding when she tried? What's she suing them for? Being mean? She could have just said she couldn't pull it out. Then if they wouldn't let her board her flight, she almost certainly could have sued them and won.

At one point before any of the removal happened, she had asked if a female TSA officer could check to see that they were indeed nipple rings, and she was told no, that they would have to come out.

That seems unreasonable, but they almost certainly had policy in mind. I have no idea what their manual might have said regarding piercings, but apparently it wasn't very diplomatic.

Ok, here is what I want to ask, now that the groundwork is laid out. Should our security measures be so stringent that this woman would have to remove any piercings that are hidden and would be considered "indecent" to show to a male official? Or, do you beleive, as I do, that this woman should at the very least, have been visually inspected by a female officer, or just left alone?

Yeah, of course. I don't think we're THAT paranoid.

Without trying to bring up racial issues,

But you're about to do it without trying?

I do want to say that she was caucasian. Of the last 18 terrorists, none of them were caucasian, and 16 of them were of a middle-east background.

Last 18 terrorists? What does that mean? I don't think this woman is actually Caucasian anyway. She's white, if that's what you mean, but so what? Most terrorists are men. Most terrorists aren't in Texas. We can use any statistic we want to make ridiculous comparisons.

And if we're being paranoid enough to say this sort of thing should be the norm, maybe she wasn't a terrorist at all. Maybe she was an assassin with a fake nipple ring that was actually a poison dart gun built into her breast and she was trying to kill someone on the flight. Not everyone who is dangerous is a terrorist.

Where exactly does the security of the nation (or of a group of its population) cross the line of a person's personal freedom?

Personal freedom? Is the airline now a branch of government? Is it a human right to fly on any airplane you want on whatever terms you want? This isn't freedom vs. security. This is (probably) a policy being taken to its logical conclusion by people who should have been smart enough to see that this was an exceptional case. And I still don't think they should be sued. But I'm not surprised.

I feel that the requirements for the security checkpoints is that you remove all metal from your person. All removable metal, so as to exclude a plate in one's head and such. If that is the true standard, then she should by all means be required to remove the rings.

That said, if one of the rings is not cooperating, then I believe that she should've been given the opportunity to be inspected by a female official and passed on that basis.

Yeah, my thoughts exactly.

I read this earlier today and nothing about it makes sense. First, the story mentions that there were female officers present (which I believe is required by law for such occasions), so why couldn't they examine her?

Well, they could have, but if there was a rule about removing any removable metal, an examination would have been both unnecessary and insufficient under a strict reading of the rules. Metal that falls under a normally removable category (piercings) but that just won't cooperate is rare enough not to have made it into the manual even as a footnote. The policy makers just didn't think of it and the enforcers refused to step outside the letter of the law. It's stupid, but it makes perfect sense.

She also was not offered a pat-down, which, according to the TSA rules, is an acceptable alternative.

If it was an acceptable alternative in this case, then they probably made a huge mistake. I don't know if a pat-down is considered an acceptable alternative to removing piercings, though. I'm guessing it typically isn't. I don't have any piercings, but I'm guessing that if I had an earring and wanted to just have them touch my ear to make sure it is an earring, rather than go through a metal detector, they'd look at me funny and make me take the thing out anyway.

Finally, the story states that she intends to have them re-inserted. Who needs nipple rings that badly? Judging by her age, she certainly shouldn't be showing them off to anyone.

You'd be surprised, Turgy. I'll bet somewhere in the world, there's a woman even older than Mooseman who's just crazy about her nipple rings.

I just read this myself on a separate site before coming to this thread and a) totally believe whatever someone wants to do with their body is their business and b) visual inspection should have been enough. Unless people with all sorts of piercings like tongue, naval, etc need to remove their stuff, she shouldn't have had to remove hers.

My impression is that those people DO have to remove all of their piercings. Most of them are probably smart enough to just take them out before going to the airport, but I'm sure at some point it's happened...

 

[Spiderman]

My impression is that those people DO have to remove all of their piercings. Most of them are probably smart enough to just take them out before going to the airport, but I'm sure at some point it's happened...

<shrug> I don't know. On one hand, it's be nice to know that there IS a standard being applied, on the other, if it HAS happened before, it must not be newsworthy.

I do want to say that she was caucasian. Of the last 18 terrorists, none of them were caucasian

I guess he wasn't in the last 18, but let's not forget that Briton who was trying to detonate his shoes. It's him we have to thank for taking off our shoes at the checkpoints now...

 

[EricBess]

A guy uses a shoe bomb and now everyone has to remove their shoes at security checkpoints. It's a pain, but it's come to be accepted.

The rules aren't just haphazard and the woman knew she would be going through a metal detector. I agree that accomodations should be made for medical reasons (plates in head or knee, for example), but she should have known the expectation and dealt with it ahead of time. I really don't have any sympathy for her.

 

[Mooseman]

I have to agree with EB here.... you have to know your piercing is metal and will not get through the detectors. She should have taken them out prior to going to the airport, but foregoing that, she should have approached the security people and brought this to their attention to request what the resolution would be and what options she would have. Then she could decide for herself what was acceptable or not.
Trying to get through the screening process like that is the same as carrying a lead pipe in your shoe and then complaining that your shoes got ruined while taking it out......

I do think the TSA agents were idiots about it, but not all the blame is on them.

Now, I do think the shoe searches and stuff is so reactive and not proactive.... they need to get some people thinking about how to get stuff on the planes and institute measures to eliminate these possibilities.....
The whole thing is mostly a joke and just makes the government look like they are doing something without being very effective and financially efficient....
We need better people running these agencies......

 

[DarthFerret]

<----Votes for Moosman to run things at TSA!

 

[rokapoke]

[DarthFerret] Votes for Moosman to run things at TSA!

I think you may have misunderstood Mooseman's statement. At least, I think you missed one word. I have highlighted it below.

We need better people running these agencies......

 

[Mooseman]

I think you may have misunderstood Mooseman's statement. At least, I think you missed one word. I have highlighted it below.

Hey I resemble that remark....

 

[Spiderman]

I'm not arguing that she should have removed her piercings when asked. I AM arguing that the method/process used at that point is up for improvement. I mean, c'mon, making her use pliers to remove them? Not allowing a female officer to check them? That's the problem which you guys seem to be missing...

 

[Oversoul]

I'm not arguing that she should have removed her piercings when asked. I AM arguing that the method/process used at that point is up for improvement. I mean, c'mon, making her use pliers to remove them? Not allowing a female officer to check them? That's the problem which you guys seem to be missing...

I'll grant you that. I just don't think it should be actionable (if it even is).

 

[DarthFerret]

Well, I flew from Houston to Indianapolis yesterday, did not get pulled out of line, did not set of the metal detectors, and did not have the plane blow up on me. I guess that means that no terrorists were on my flight.

 

[Spiderman]

Or... that your plane wasn't important enough

 

[EricBess]

I'm not arguing that she should have removed her piercings when asked. I AM arguing that the method/process used at that point is up for improvement. I mean, c'mon, making her use pliers to remove them? Not allowing a female officer to check them? That's the problem which you guys seem to be missing...

I wasn't there, but I'm not sure I agree with your assessment. "making her use pliers...", well, is it really their buisiness how she removes them? Isn't it reasonable that they simply asked her to remove them and it was up to her to make sure that happened. If they were stuck and she needed to use pliers, then she certainly had a problem.

As for having a female officer check her, that is perhaps reasonable, particularly given that she was clearly having a hard time with them. But I have to think that they may have been under a lot of pressure. I've seen some pretty long lines waiting to get through security and a lot of people feel they should be able to show up right before their flight leaves. While that is hardly the problem of the officers, they do take the brunt of that and from what I've seen, they do try to keep things moving as quickly as possible. Again, I wasn't there, but perhaps they felt that one person inconvenienced because of her own choices was more appropriate than a line full of people being inconvenienced by the resulting slow down it may have involved to check her by hand if they were short staffed...

I'm not saying that's what happened because I wasn't there. I'm just saying that the security people may have been completely reasonable in what they did.

 

[Spiderman]

I was just going by DF's statement in his original post

They made her take a pair of pliers and rip it out

But I also clicked turgy22's link to the story just to make sure. I'm guessing yu didn't as several glaring things jump out that address your concerns.

officers at a Texas airport appear to have properly followed procedures when they allegedly forced a woman to remove her nipple rings -- one with pliers -- but acknowledged the procedures should be changed.

Pretty much the basis of this whole discussion which it looks like we agree that they followed procedures and which I said (and which they agree) should be changed.

in which she was forced to painfully remove the piercings behind a curtain as she heard snickers from male TSA officers nearby.

Unacceptable.

passengers with piercings can undergo a pat-down inspection if they do not want to take their piercings out -- an option she said Hamlin was never offered.

So it's policy but if she wasn't offered it, then that sorta breaks the rules.

In addition, once removed, the pierced skin may close up almost immediately, making it difficult and painful to reinsert the piercing."

Interesting... is this the case with all pierced areas or just the nipple area?

Afterward, Hamlin underwent another scan, but realized she had forgotten to remove her navel ring. She offered to remove it, Allred said, but an officer told her it was not necessary because he could see it. Hamlin wondered why a similar visual inspection of her nipple rings would not have sufficed

So she had a nipple ring that passed visual inspection but not her nipple rings?

So all in all, I'm glad they're looking to change their procedure.

 

[rokapoke]

So all in all, I'm glad they're looking to change their procedure.

Just keep in mind that NOBODY wants to see your nipple rings, either, Spidey.

 

[Spiderman]

<sniff>