Survivor: Heros vs Villains

[Spiderman]

Amanda might have also helped, if she shared that she talked with Parvati and P told her that she had an immunity idol, which wouldn't have jived with what Russell told them. Of course, they would also think P wasn't telling the truth, but I think there would be enough difference in the stories that they couldn't be sure what was going on.

Although apparently Amanda gave too much away and roused P's suspicions. Oh well.

 

[Melkor]

Amanda seemed completely transparent in her conversation with Parvati. I'm curious about how Russel's ego is going to handle the fact that Parvati kept the immunity idol secret from him. There are a lot of moving parts right now, Sandra, Russel, Parvati, whether the heroes still try to stay together or break apart. Should be interesting.

 

[EricBess]

Yeah, I think that the biggest thing keeping Russell from actually doing good is that he can't handle not being in control and feels any secret as a threat. If he thinks he can't trust Parvati, then it might cause quite a strain.

 

[Spiderman]

I think Amanda had Parvati half-convinced in the first talk, but blew it in the second talk (that was shown, who knows what was going on off-footage).

Saw last night's, woo-hoo!

Danielle is a big whiner from the immunity idol tussle. Colby has too much a sense of fair-play, but I don't agree that the clue was Danielle's to begin with. She might have found it, but she lost it.

Candice is too scared. Why switching to the villains when Sandra is willing to switch to the Heros to keep the numbers up is beyond me. I mean, I know she's the low person on the Hero totem pole (along with Colby), but with JT gone, it's more like they're even. They could have gotten a Villain (Parvati) out and kept the numbers up, but it looked like Sandra couldn't convince Candice to vote for P before tribal so Sandra was forced to vote with the rest of the villain so it wouldn't look suspicious.

So I hope from the previews that the villain tribe does implode, with Russell vs Parvati with Russell going first and then P and the heros can take back the advantage

 

[Melkor]

Colby was a wimp in that situation, it seems to me like he is just punching the clock until he gets voted out. Yeah, I think that at the end of the day, the distrust between Sandra and Candice combined with Russel having an Immunity Idol intimidated both of them into going with the Villain alliance. Just too many uncertainties to take the big risk there. I'm interested to see the potential blow up next week of Parvati and Russell, although at this point I'm not rooting for any of the heroes to win. They haven't done anything to deserve it in my opinion. When Rupert is the savviest hero, that tells me they are a little lacking in the strategy department (although kudos to Rupert for showing a lot more than he did in his previous seasons).

 

[Spiderman]

I think if Candice had more confidence in the Hero alliance and shared what she knew when Russell told her about the idol, it could have all worked out for the Heros. But even going with the Villains, I don't see her going very far there either. Unless she wins immunity all the time and/or the villain alliance implodes (which it may do )

I think Rupert is the best choice for a winner at this point. I don't like any of the villains and like you say, even among the heros, there's not really a great choice. But he's the best out of them remaining, methinks.

 

[EricBess]

I think that is my biggest issue with Candice. I don't really get what's going on with the heroes, but the villians obviously have a plan, so even if you believe everything Russell tells you (and let's face it, he's been completely honest so far ), you are on the outs to begin with. He basically told her, "we have a stronger, larger alliance than the heroes and if you join us, I think you'll make top 3". Really? More numbers is going to get you further?

The stupid thing is that she had the numbers and better. Sandra is easy pickings no matter what tribe you are on and as mentioned, Colby doesn't seem to have any motivation anymore. Amanda wants to win it and would be an eventual threat, but she's no tougher than any one of the other remaining villians. So how dumb is she or what didn't we see that made her think that she has a better chance by switching? That just doesn't make any sense to me at all.

Even if you think Sandra is disengenuous, then come up with a plan that benefits you either way like they tried last week (and would have succeeded had P not had 2 idols).

The best part of all of this is that had they wanted to, they could have eliminated Pavarti two weeks in a row now had they just tried.

BTW - our discussion last week about Rupert not being able to convince people and someone commented that you thought he did convince them, which is why they voted for Jerri. Had they really been convinced, they could have voted off Russell himself last week and it would have worked.

 

[Spiderman]

Yeah, I seem to remember (vaguely) that Candice was the same way on her original show - she kept trying to find ways to further herself in the game even when it didn't really make sense (at least to us viewers).

No, because they thought Russell still had the immunity idol that he got from JT at that point. The Heroes chose Jerri because they thought she was least likely to receive one from Russell or Parvarti (which obviously proved false, but that's what they thought).

 

[Melkor]

Also from what we saw J.T. still trusted Russell and that choosing Jerri gave Russell a chance to prove himself one way or the other. Still, things should pick up as the heroes are no longer a real threat as a group and that will allow the Villain alliance to finally crack.

 

[Spiderman]

Also from what we saw J.T. still trusted Russell and that choosing Jerri gave Russell a chance to prove himself one way or the other.

In my mind, having to prove yourself means you're not trusted I think JT *did* trust Russell but was swayed by the rest of the heros concern about him (especially Rupert, although Amanda might have chimed in off-screen). It didn't hurt to have Russell vote one way and the heros the other since they thought a villain would go home regardless.

 

[EricBess]

Russell had no incentive to play the idol, so I think it did come down to the fact that some people on the Heroes tribe still trusted him.

After Candice's move, I don't see how the heroes are going to avoid just being picked off. Yes, the villians seem to be falling apart as a tribe, but I think they all realize that ultimately, they need to resolve their differences later.

Russell, however, tends to react very quickly to distrust (ie. lack of control), so if he thinks Pavarti (or anyone else) is likely to flip, he may try to remove them first, which could cause things to crumble.

 

[Spiderman]

But it was the mere fact that he had the idol is what caused the mistrust. He was supposed to play it to save himself against the all-girl Villain alliance and he told JT he did play it, but Parvati played one also. So if he still had an idol, that meant he wasn't telling the truth.

Russell, however, tends to react very quickly to distrust (ie. lack of control), so if he thinks Pavarti (or anyone else) is likely to flip, he may try to remove them first, which could cause things to crumble.

I think (and hope) that's what's going to happen from the previews. First it was Russell vs Boston Rob, now it's Russell vs Parvati

 

[EricBess]

I don't know how to even comment without giving everything away if you haven't seen this episode yet... Just don't read anything but the next paragraph if you haven't seen the episode.

The one thing I will say for now is that I didn't like the way they ended last season with a bunch of very quick eliminations crammed right in the last few weeks, but it looks like they are doing it again. We still have 7 survivors and I'm guessing that there are only 2 more episodes. The Amazing Race ends this weekend and they usually have the finale of Survivor the weekend after the finale of that.

Still, with Russell around, you never know what is going to happen. We knew there was a possibility of the villians imploding, but I certainly didn't expect it to happen like this. I expected Russell to get so paranoid that no one trusted him, but didn't expect him to actively work to sabotage his own alliance. What does he honestly expect the fall-out to be? He says "Pavarti will come begging me...".

Sometimes, I think that Russell is a great judge of human emotion and very able to manipulate it and other times, I think he is clueless. I understand why he wanted to break up Danielle and Pavarti, but he should have started sowing the distrust with Jerri and/or Sandra, not directly confronting Pavarti, who was bound to talk with Danielle.

But I think Danielle's comment about being that close with Pavarti may have convinced Jerri that the pecking order needed to be changed. Still, after seeing what happened to Candice for betraying her own tribe, you would think people wouldn't let their arrogance get so much in the way.

Russell is nothing if not a meglomaniacal ego.

Based on the previews, it's Russell that goes after the hero tribe. Where is Sandra in all of this? And is Jerri even playing the game?

 

[Melkor]

They're clearly not showing us all the conversations that Jerri is having and not giving us any testimonials from her so it was kind of odd to see her switch like that. Still, you're right that Jerri felt that she needed to change up the pecking order and you're also right that Sandra needed to keep trying to work the heroes. Pavarti is actually in a tight place now, I think she's got to somehow get Jerri back on her side and let the Danielle blind side go for now. It would be real hard for her to get the heroes on her side now. Although if they really are willing to go with Russell then I guess it isn't as hard as I think.

 

[Spiderman]

Yep, only two more episodes. I don't know why they cram all of the eliminations at the end either.

I agree that we must not have seen all that had to do with Jerri. I mean, she says she'll vote for Rupurt initially but switches her vote at some point? Was it from talking with Russell (who of course doesn't give her any information) or from the tribal talk?

And I hope, from the previews, the heroes aren't suckered into an alliance with Russell... Rupert said, he can't be trusted... so please, please, please, I hope they're pretending to be with him so they can vote him out...

I actually was surprised Danielle was gone, but I didn't think Jerri would switch her vote.

Candice wasn't that big of a surprise, happy she was gone, like she said, karma is a oink.

 

[EricBess]

I don't think Jerri was planning to vote for Danielle, but changed her mind during tribal. For some reason, a lot of people end up trusting Russell, even though everyone knows that he can't be trusted. Maybe they can't wrap their heads around just how far he will go, so they end up wanting to give him some benefit of the doubt.

I agree with you Spidey, I really hope that Rupert and Colbey aren't fooled either. I saw a preview where everyone was talking about who they wanted to get rid of and Rupert said "Sandra has to go." which surprised me because Sandra was the one person that had tried to work with them, so I would think that she might be the one to get to switch. I can see getting rid of one other villian before Russell, just to solidify the numbers, but certainly no more than that. Pavarti will never trust Russell again and Russell really wants her gone, so keep her one more time and get rid of Jerri, for example. I'm not sure what to think of Jerri right now, but since Coach has been eliminated, she has been voting with Russell every time.

 

[Spiderman]

Like you said

Sometimes, I think that Russell is a great judge of human emotion and very able to manipulate it and other times

and he says things to people and is pretty sure they're not going to talk amongst themselves, so he can control them. It backfired a little with Danielle and Parvati (although ultimately Danielle was eliminated, so I guess he accomplished his goal anyway), but for the most part, because people don't seem to talk to each other other than Russell, they end up going along with his plans.

 

[Spiderman]

Saw the Thurday show but not the finale yet...

Looks like Parvarti saved herself unwittingly when she won immunity... I can't believe Rupert and Colby were considering going with Russell, but I guess with their backs against the wall they didn't have a choice... and too bad they couldn't make anything work with Sandra, as she seemed more likely to go along with them than Russell.

I can't believe Sandra was considering not playing the idol at tribal; it's the last council you can use it! Play it even if you don't think you're in danger, because you never know what's going on! I'm glad she did play it...

Even though I'm hoping Russell will get voted out, the likelihood is diminishing (especially since the finale has already aired), so my second choice is him making it to the finals but not getting the voted based on how he played. Yeah, he might be "playing the game", but part of it is the social aspect and how you treat other (or at least, how they perceive you) so I'm hoping enough on the jury think they have been betrayed enough by Russell that they won't give him their vote.

 

[EricBess]

When you see the finale, you may understand why Sandra was considering not playing it. It ends up not being important, but Russell gives her a really hard time about having the idol without him knowing about it. He's quite the hypocrite.

You didn't see who won yet? I think the most accurate assessment of Russell comes from Boston Rob, who says, "He plays to get to the end, but he doesn't play to win."

The vote itself is actually a bit predictable by the time it comes (sorry). I'm surprised, however, that they didn't do the customary, "who would have voted for the other person who just got eliminated?" They showed 6 of the 9 votes cast and there were a few key comments made during the final tribal to give you a decent ideal who the other 3 might have voted for, so they didn't do a great job at suspense this season.

I won't say more until you've had a chance to see it.

 

[Spiderman]

Nope, haven't seen who's won yet either from any news source. We'll see how long that lasts

I think the most accurate assessment of Russell comes from Boston Rob, who says, "He plays to get to the end, but he doesn't play to win."

I think that gives away that Russell didn't win

The main reason Sandra gave for not playing the idol was that she felt safe, not that she feared Russell's wrath or paranoia. She didn't feel safe after the tribal council talk, so she played it (so she said).