Surge

Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
I listened last night to the Prez and I liked how he took ownership of the troubles he's caused in Iraq but I'm not sold that a drop in the buck of 20,000 more troops deployed to Bagdad is going to help. NYC and all the boroughs has more cops than that on any given day I'd bet.

I don't know, I like the thought of re-deploying the troops to a position of assisting the Iraqi's in training but I sure do think we need get our guys off the streets of Bahgdad.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I think he took "ownership" because the Republicans are no longer in control of Congress, he has two years left on his term and wants to be seen in history as someone who accomplished something, not someone who dragged the US into another "Vietnam".

And I don't think more troops will do squat at this point either. Maybe back when Hussein was first toppled, but everything's different now.
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
Oooh there was a big barbaque yesterday in the belt way and Condi Rice was cinged to a crisp! I expected the Dems to rifle her but when the Rep from ohio fired at her, man, was THAT a shocker! :eek:
 
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Nightstalkers

Guest
Can't really change the system in Iraq. It'll turn out like another Israel in the end... only with infighting.
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
Isn't Insanity doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results?

Call it a "surge" or "augmentation" or whatever "spin-word" Karl has thought up of but it's still the same thing different name.
 
N

Nightstalkers

Guest
Looking over the "leaked" footage of Sadam's hanging... Those guys definitely don't know **** about hanging people. First of all, the knot is supposed to go down the front of the guy, not out the base of the guy's head. Secondly, the length of the rope is only supposed to be about a foot and a half or so, not the horribly long length they showed down Sadam's girth.

I don't doubt the fact that they ripped the one brother's head off. While they do seem to be using the huge hangman's rope that is supposed to be used, they are doing things all wrong. A hanging is supposed to break a guy's neck, not strangle them to death or rip their head off.
 
Ferret

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
I think that Surge was a great soda and I was quite miffed when they discontinued it...

...what? We're talking about a different Surge? Oh. Let me start again.

As someone that's been-there/done-that/got-the-TShirt I think that I know what the basic problem with Iraq is: Iraqis. They really don't know how to govern themselves. They keep allowing differing religious points of view to keep them from having any stability. Their National Guard/Army/Police forces are either too corrupt to do the right thing or too scared to deal with The Insurgency. Adding more troops to the mix won't help them learn to stand on their own.

I'm actually in favour of a complete pullout. I think that we pull out the troops, but nest it with enough spies so that if we see any Iraqi government officials try to help out terrorists in any way, we can kill them - and then find their terrorist buddies. I know this seems identical to what we did four years ago, but we can do it with a little more subtlety...

-Ferret

"...or cluster bombs!"
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
...too much money will be lost if we pull out now or ever i.e. Parsons Construction, Haliburten, etc...and besides, didn't Bush say that when we get control of Iraq our fuel prices will go down? The longer we stay the longer money is generated for our rich private citizens and what's so wrong with that?

John Edwards is strongly in favor of pulling out of Iraq, that's a dangerous notion and I'd be willing to bet he's considered to be an enemy combatant by this administration. :eek:

(/end sarcasim)
 
Mooseman

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
These idiots sent untraceable cash to the Iraqis and over $8.8 billion is unaccounted for........
Are our leaders fighting terrorism or ineptly funding it.

"The Federal Reserve sent record payouts of more than $4 billion in cash to Baghdad on giant pallets aboard military planes shortly before the United States gave control back to Iraqis, lawmakers said Tuesday.

The money, which had been held by the United States, came from Iraqi oil exports, surplus dollars from the U.N.-run oil-for-food program and frozen assets belonging to the ousted Saddam Hussein regime.

Bills weighing a total of 363 tons were loaded onto military aircraft in the largest cash shipments ever made by the Federal Reserve, said Rep. Henry Waxman, chairman of the House Committee on Oversight and Government Reform.

On December 12, 2003, $1.5 billion was shipped to Iraq, initially "the largest pay out of U.S. currency in Fed history," according to an e-mail cited by committee members.

It was followed by more than $2.4 billion on June 22, 2004, and $1.6 billion three days later. The CPA turned over sovereignty on June 30.

The special inspector general for Iraqi reconstruction, Stuart Bowen, said in a January 2005 report that $8.8 billion was unaccounted for after being given to the Iraqi ministries."
 
Mooseman

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
More evidence of poor planning for post-war Iraq:

WASHINGTON (AP) — Some of the planning by Gen. Tommy Franks and other top military officials before the 2003 invasion of Iraq envisioned that as few as 5,000 U.S. troops would remain in Iraq by December 2006, according to documents obtained by a private research organization.

Slides obtained by the National Security Archive under the Freedom of Information Act contain a PowerPoint presentation of what planners projected to be a stable, pro-American and democratic Iraq after the ouster of Saddam Hussein.

"Completely unrealistic assumptions about a post-Saddam Iraq permeate these war plans," said National Security Archive Executive Director Thomas Blanton in a statement posted on the organization's website along with copies of some charts used in the PowerPoint presentation.

"First, they assumed that a provisional government would be in place by 'D-Day', then that the Iraqis would stay in their garrisons and be reliable partners, and finally that the post-hostilities phase would be a matter of mere 'months'. All of these were delusions."

"Stay the course", Famous last words of Luke the Lemming
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
Okay, so now I hear that the President wants "Surge" on top the surge alreadu going on? Does anyone else know about this?
 
D

DarthFerret

Guest
Isn't/wasn't Surge a carbonated beverage at one time? I think I remember that.

Seriously, I think, no matter if it is a correct move or not, that Bush may be trying to "end the war" before the next President comes in. As you all may have guessed, I am pro-Bush in most things (only a fool will deal in absolutes, I absolutely guarantee it!). I do think that we went there for a good reason, even if the reason may or may not have been accurate. I still think that we should help clean up the mess over there now. I also believe that Bush is privy to a lot of information and military advice/strategies that we, the general public, are ignorant of (I would not have it any other way personally).

The biggest issue to me is this, We the people elected Bush by the normal process. It was understood at that time that he would serve for 4 more years. If people are complaining now, where were they when the election was held. If there was this much anti-Bushism (is that a word) then, how did he get elected?

Hindsight is 20/20, and if any of the elected/appointed officials in Washington knew then what they know now, things may have gone differently. But they made the call, and who can say, if some things were different (say that they did find WMD's or a direct link to Osama) that we would not be celebrating them as heros.

I am not calling anyone out on this, just having my own little turn at a miniature rant.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
The biggest issue to me is this, We the people elected Bush by the normal process. It was understood at that time that he would serve for 4 more years. If people are complaining now, where were they when the election was held. If there was this much anti-Bushism (is that a word) then, how did he get elected?
Click to expand...
Just as a note, "we the people" did NOT elect Bush. The Electoral College did. The people had no say. Thus, the complaining.
 
Killer Joe

Killer Joe

New member
True, if the voting went the way of "popular" votes then Gore would be President.

Also, I think Bush is pretty much going to do what's best for big business pocket books. And why not? The longer we are in Iraq the more money is generated from independent businesses who service the needs in Iraq. The insurgents keep blowing stuff up like water wells and etc,...so what better place to have contractors over there to keep rebuilding things. Its a sound business plan if you ask me, I don't LIKE, but sound. Wait, I mis-spoke, I HATE it!
 
Mooseman

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
Spiderman said:
Just as a note, "we the people" did NOT elect Bush. The Electoral College did. The people had no say. Thus, the complaining.
Click to expand...
BS. The United States Elections are not a national event, but are made up of 51 (I think) individual winner-take-all elections. Each state , and DC, hold elections and the winner of each is awarded all the EC votes (or should be).
Al Gore had more votes in 2000, but did not (or maybe he did) win enough states to claim the election.

On the other hand, the Bush administration has botched almost every aspect of the Iraq war. They had bad information and went with it....... When you start a war, you make sure that your information is correct, you don't guess. They guessed wrong. "If a", "would a", "should a", "could a", just doesn't cut it when you are the leader of the US.....
This administration has made mistake after mistake and only the blindly loyal can still support any plan they have for winning anything.

DF said:
Hindsight is 20/20, and if any of the elected/appointed officials in Washington knew then what they know now, things may have gone differently. But they made the call, and who can say, if some things were different (say that they did find WMD's or a direct link to Osama) that we would not be celebrating them as heros.
Click to expand...
If Florida wasn't such a cluster-F, then Al Gore could have been President and there might be no need for a war in Iraq...... or not, but wishful thinking is BS. Bush and his admin screwed up big time and they have not tried in 4 years to fix it, just stay the course.......

Saw something like this somewhere:
"Conservatism is standing on your head, thinking this is a good thing and forcing everyone else to do it, even after you pass out from the blood rushing to your head."

To be fair a friend of mine signs his email with:
"Liberalism is standing on your head and telling the rest of the world it's upside down"
 
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