our first issue

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
Well, I'm not interested in opening the debate again either, but my main gripes at the time involved creatures no longer in play still dealing combat damage, and the way they dealt with the tapped continuous artifacts no longer being "turned off", excpet for a few exceptions. I had no problem with the exceptions, just with the way I then had to explain to people in pickup games how a couple of my decks worked, and that it was okay because WotC issued errata to cover it.

And yes, KJ, I COULD have walked around like you do with a copy of the Oracle rulings tucked under my arm whenever I decided to play those decks, so I could prove I wasn't lying about the way it worked/cheating...I just chose not to...;)

I was also none too fond of the way they eliminated interrupts, as I was rather used to the idea that instants couldn't stop instants from happening, but I had some firsthand experience with players getting frustrated because they couldn't Impulse for a counterspell, so I guess I understood why that rule got changed. I did very much approve of the changes in the way triggered effects were handled, as with the point Spidey (and the big pink dude) made, and was quite ambivalent about the way tapped blockers still dealt damage.

And on the Waylay issue itself, I was of the opinion A) that it was a cool effect that someone figured out using the new rules for an advantage, and should therefore be allowed to stand for a while, and that B) that they should have fixed it by fixing the end step, or phase, or whatever the heck they decided to call it by then, rather than fixing it by pretty much making the card so narrow no one would EVER play with it again.

But again, that's just me, and I no longer care one way or the other about the whole thing...:D
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
You know you care! :D Deep down inside....

About Waylay: I thought it was cool too but since it was a loophole, players weren't really in a position to complain about the fixes. Heck, I think players should have blamed the tourney guy who made it such a success and brought it to WOTC's attention - otherwise players could have just kept on playing with it "casually" :)

But I do agree it should have been fixed at the EOT step, not how the errata ended up to be. 'Cause it got changed so it still didn't behave as the original way did.
 
O

orgg

Guest
Funny thing is, there's many a'card now that is intended for you to abuse the "Waylay step."

I really do like the changes to the rules... but some things still needle me, such as Aether Storm...
 

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
TomB said:
they should have fixed it by fixing the end step, or phase, or whatever the heck they decided to call it by then, rather than fixing it by pretty much making the card so narrow no one would EVER play with it again.

Exactly.
 

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
Play Waylay only during combat.
Put three 2/2 white Knight creature tokens into play. Remove them from the game at end of turn.


Could this be changed to:

Play Waylay only before EOT.
or
Remove them from the game at the begining of the next upkeep.


Is the card really that broken? Does it win games all by itself?
 
D

DarthFerret

Guest
Just a joke, nothing wrong. I used to try to play spells then as well as before the Untap step was over. Never got anyone to see my reasoning! (Generally was trying to get in a second or third hit with one Prodigal Sorcerer. Ah well...)
 

TomB

Administrator
Staff member
Jigglypuff said:
How do you propose they fix the end step then?

(- Steve -)
Beats me, now...I don't even remember how the damn thing works anymore! :p
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Mooseman posted how it currently works right now...

I would change "Remove them from the game at end of turn." to "During end of turn, remove them from the game."
 
J

Jigglypuff

Guest
But when would the tokens actually be removed? At some random point during the end of turn step? The only way it could work would be if it was worded like Thawing Glaciers.

(- Steve -)
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
I guess "during" is no longer used as templating then?

Yeah, I didn't see Thawing Glaciers got changed to what it is now. I would say that be the solution then, using that as the model.
 

Ferret

Moderator
Staff member
Ah yes, Waylay. I remember some of the other Founders were all up in arms about this. Oddly enough, I didn't care. My concern was the fact that the rule was changed because of abuse in tourneys - as were lots of rules were. Also, I recalled seeing articles in Duelist and on WotC's web site talking about how sets in development would impact the Pro Tour. A lot of us on The Dojo's old forums saw this and found ourselves going "What the crap?"

So the CPA was formed (for a list of the original founders find my ancient article from '99 ).

Still I have seen a few things that happened after a few years of our existence:

The term "Casual Play" was used quite frequently in WotC articles (and there's a large section on MTGO). Coincidence?

We have been mentionned in a few articles on WotC's site (one of them even mentionned how the Waylay rule is what formed us).

We have interviewed some of the biggest names at WotC (thanks to Orgg!)

.
.
.

We're kinda' like a group of people that everyone knows must exist, but no one goes out of their way to find...

-Ferret

"Still, it's been nearly seven years and we're still here..."
 

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Ferret said:
My concern was the fact that the rule was changed because of abuse in tourneys - as were lots of rules were.
Unless I'm mis-reading the above, the card was changed so that it (almost) acted as it did before 6th rules.

So the CPA was formed (for a list of the original founders find my ancient article from '99 ).
You can also view the list on the main forum page after clicking "View Forum Leaders" (near the bottom). The only people listed there that aren't Founders are myself, Istanbul, and orgg, I believe.
 
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