Obama thinks babies are punishment!

[Oversoul]

<shrug> No, she wasn't under sniper fire. But I think it depends on your view of Hillary of whether it's just a "slip" or not.

I don't see how it does. It's not the sort of thing healthy people are generally confused about. If she wasn't shot at and thought she was, I'd call that having a REALLY bad memory or false memories. "Slip" usually means you said something you didn't mean to, not contrived a whole story. Or that's the usage of "slip" I'm used to, anyway...

Speaking of the abortion debate (and spoken a bit tongue in cheek, but just a bit): With the developments of gene testing, people may eventually choose whether to carry to term a child with disabilities or ailments more serious or even whether they should have a boy or a girl (this is kinda done already anyway, especially in China from what I've read). Just another added argument/reason behind why some may abort in the future...

I'm sure it could happen. I don't see how it's an argument for or against abortion. If you're against abortion, people aborting fetuses with genetic problems would still be bad, right? And if you support abortion rights or whatever, people being able to make more informed decisions isn't a problem, is it?

As an aside, hopefully gene therapy can fix a lot of those problems anyway, so that the testing could show what therapy if any would be necessary. I think that completely subsumes any issue regarding gene testing and abortion (and furthermore, I believe that people who would try to halt the development or implementation of genetic testing in order to prevent abortions are mentally ill and need help), but I already said I don't think it provides a case for or against abortion anyway...

 

[Spiderman]

I don't see how it does. It's not the sort of thing healthy people are generally confused about. If she wasn't shot at and thought she was, I'd call that having a REALLY bad memory or false memories. "Slip" usually means you said something you didn't mean to, not contrived a whole story. Or that's the usage of "slip" I'm used to, anyway...

If she was shot at during a different time, she could confuse the two. Even hearing the backfire of a car or something that sounds like a shot could be easily mixed up. That's why it depends onm your view of Hillary on how serious this "slip" is.

I don't see how it's an argument for or against abortion. If you're against abortion, people aborting fetuses with genetic problems would still be bad, right? And if you support abortion rights or whatever, people being able to make more informed decisions isn't a problem, is it?

If you're against abortions period, yeah, it doesn't matter. But we've already seen there are various situations among "pro-life" where abortion might be acceptable. Is this one of them? How serious a genetic problem does it have to be?

Same with pro-choicers... just because you CAN abort, does it mean you should? Again with the line drawn at how serious a genetic problem is... and gender determination...

Gene therapy could help but what's the cost? Can a family cover it? Can insurance cover it? If you can't cover it, what then? There's still a lot of questions...

 

[EricBess]

I think I kind of addressed this with DF, but I'll try to make it clear. This isn't "accountability." If I am careless and I cut myself while peeling potatoes, no one is suggesting that the knife should be sent to jail. But I would like to be able to bandage the wound without government interference. And if people want to block me from getting to the bandages because I need to be held accountable for my culinary recklessness, well, I'm going to crack some skulls. It's a silly metaphor, but I'm sure you see my point.

I don't think we are agreeing here on our definition of accountability as to how it applies to sex and abortion. If you are peeling potatoes, you know that there is a possibility that you will cut your finger. You can take precautions to avoid getting cut, but no matter how careful you are, you might cut your finger.

If you do cut your finger, the consequences are that you will be in pain for a while and need to, as you suggest, find yourself a bandage. If the pain is sufficient, perhaps you could pop a tylonol, but morphine would probably be overkill, so you aren't really going to have a choice but to live with the consequences of what happened when you peeled that potatoe, unfortunate though that may be.

The consequence of sex is that the possibility exists of pregnancy. "I didn't know" just doesn't cut it. When anyone chooses to engage in sex, they do so knowing that a pregnancy can result, no matter how careful they are to avoid it. If you honestly feel that an abortion is the equivalent of putting a bandage onto a wound, then I feel bad for you.

To me, an abortion is more akin to asking a doctor for a hand transplant to deal with your cut finger.

 

[Oversoul]

The consequence of sex is that the possibility exists of pregnancy. "I didn't know" just doesn't cut it. When anyone chooses to engage in sex, they do so knowing that a pregnancy can result, no matter how careful they are to avoid it. If you honestly feel that an abortion is the equivalent of putting a bandage onto a wound, then I feel bad for you.

To me, an abortion is more akin to asking a doctor for a hand transplant to deal with your cut finger.

I'm pretty unlikely to cut my entire hand off while peeling potatoes. But maybe I was peeling them with a chainsaw or something. So what? If I do want to get a hand transplant and am willing to pay for it, why would the government get to step in and say, "No. You were stupid, so you have to live with the consequences of being stupid. No hand transplant for you."

 

[Killer Joe]

I live in Pennsylvania and I'm NOT bitter!

 

[Mooseman]

I live in Pennsylvania and I'm NOT bitter!

Me neither, should I be? Who says so? About what? Why am I always the last to know?

 

[Spiderman]

Obama latest "gaffe" is what KJ's referring to...

 

[Killer Joe]

In all honesty, I knew what he meant right away and was not offended and I think the Clintons over-played their hand with this one. But I was glad thw sniper-fire thing took a break (hasn't anyone even heard of dramatic speaking to make a point?).

I bet that the RNCers are salivating at this one if Obama gets the nomination...

 

[EricBess]

I'm pretty unlikely to cut my entire hand off while peeling potatoes. But maybe I was peeling them with a chainsaw or something. So what? If I do want to get a hand transplant and am willing to pay for it, why would the government get to step in and say, "No. You were stupid, so you have to live with the consequences of being stupid. No hand transplant for you."

Out of curiosity, are you intentionally missing my point?

 

[Oversoul]

Out of curiosity, are you intentionally missing my point?

Is it even possible to intentionally miss a point? If I know where a point is, I'm not actually missing it, am I? And if I don't, missing it can't really be intentional...

 

[DarthFerret]

Instant Abortion Cure: Only requires one law to be passed. If an abortion is o be performed it must be accompanied by either Castration on the part of the male participant, or by hysterectomy on the part of the female. If neither party is willing to undergo such operation then the abortion shall be prohibited. In the case of a Rape, then the court shall mandate that the guilty party be required to undergo the requisite procedure.



**Disclaimer** This is intended for entertainment purposes only, and the views expressed in this post are not neccessarily the views expressed in this post.

I am DarthFerret and I approve this message! (Including the disclaimer)

Void where prohibited, illegal, infractuous, or even looked at funny..

 

[Killer Joe]

I'm pretty sure there will never a total agreement on the pro/anti abortion issue and it's likely that it'll always be a political hot-topic.

Well, the PA Primaries are tomorrow! You Clinton opposers; she's not likely to get out of the race tomorrow.

 

[Oversoul]

Instant Abortion Cure: Only requires one law to be passed. If an abortion is o be performed it must be accompanied by either Castration on the part of the male participant, or by hysterectomy on the part of the female. If neither party is willing to undergo such operation then the abortion shall be prohibited. In the case of a Rape, then the court shall mandate that the guilty party be required to undergo the requisite procedure.



**Disclaimer** This is intended for entertainment purposes only, and the views expressed in this post are not neccessarily the views expressed in this post.

I am DarthFerret and I approve this message! (Including the disclaimer)

Void where prohibited, illegal, infractuous, or even looked at funny..

I'm sure you're aware of the obvious problems with this (which was undoubtedly the reason for the disclaimer), but a less immediate potential effect would be a sharp increase in the number of false rape accusations...

I'm pretty sure there will never a total agreement on the pro/anti abortion issue and it's likely that it'll always be a political hot-topic.

Well, that wasn't really my intention.

 

[DarthFerret]

I'm sure you're aware of the obvious problems with this (which was undoubtedly the reason for the disclaimer), but a less immediate potential effect would be a sharp increase in the number of false rape accusation.

Yes, that was the reason for the disclaimer (plus it was meant in pure humor), however, if the system works (meaning guilt beyond a reasonable doubt) then it would only apply to convicted rapists.

Maybe it is just my hollow attempt at lightening up a topic that I never envisioned would be discussed for so long.

Long Live King DarthFerret!!!

 

[Mooseman]

Long Live King DarthFerret!!!

King? Don't you mean Emperor? May the Force be with you..... either side..... haha