Magic 2010 Rules Changes
- Thread starter Spiderman
- Start date
T
theorgg
Guest
The major thing that will affect how you play the game isn't mana burn.
The major thing is the changes to how attackers are blocked, and how damage is dealt. That is needlessly confusing and seems to be chans gratia changis.
The major thing is the changes to how attackers are blocked, and how damage is dealt. That is needlessly confusing and seems to be chans gratia changis.
M
Modus Pwnens
Guest
I must respectfully disagree here.
In my humble opinion, it seems that they removed the combat-damage stacking rule, in order to make combat less complex. To void claims that combat would be trivially simple, they added something of similar complexity, which would make slightly more sense in a narrative way. I agree that this solution is rather ugly, specifically with things like deathtouch, and I don't see the problem with keeping things the way it was.
In my humble opinion, it seems that they removed the combat-damage stacking rule, in order to make combat less complex. To void claims that combat would be trivially simple, they added something of similar complexity, which would make slightly more sense in a narrative way. I agree that this solution is rather ugly, specifically with things like deathtouch, and I don't see the problem with keeping things the way it was.
I agree with Modus here. In today's standard, double blocking rarely happens AND, when they do, the ordering of blocking priority issues very rarely differs from what previously would've happened.
Removing the stacking of combat damage drastically alters the effectiveness of some cards, the well-known example in standard right now is Putrid Leech.
Ransac, cpa trash man
Removing the stacking of combat damage drastically alters the effectiveness of some cards, the well-known example in standard right now is Putrid Leech.
Ransac, cpa trash man
M
Modus Pwnens
Guest
I'm disagreeing with TheOrgg that it's a change for the sake of change.
Putrid Leech was in Reborn, which was released prior to the rule-changes, although perhaps with the changes in mind.
Putrid Leech was in Reborn, which was released prior to the rule-changes, although perhaps with the changes in mind.
T
theorgg
Guest
I understand stopping the 'damage on the stack' trick. Why the ordering of blockers, though? It seems to serve no point-- and the old 'deal two to both of those, then quake-effect for one' was seen in limited quite a bit.
I also think they want to do a 'lifetotal matters' theme in a set, and manaburn messes with that.
I also think they want to do a 'lifetotal matters' theme in a set, and manaburn messes with that.
Modus: Ah.
I'm not sure why assigning combat damage needs to be tied in with the stack though - just assign combat dmg and resolve it. You can still assign dmg the way you want though. That would have seemed better and I would bet it was an option when WOTC was deciding these changes, so I'm not sure why it didn't make it as the final change
I'm not sure why assigning combat damage needs to be tied in with the stack though - just assign combat dmg and resolve it. You can still assign dmg the way you want though. That would have seemed better and I would bet it was an option when WOTC was deciding these changes, so I'm not sure why it didn't make it as the final change
M
Modus Pwnens
Guest
Because that way cards that prevent damage to a creature you control would be worthless when gangblocking, since you can simply assign the damage to another creature..
E
EricBess
Guest
Doesn't the attacker have to decide the order that the damage will be dealt first, though? So if you want to save one of the later creatures selected with damage prevention, you can?
Which is where my issue with it comes. If you choose to deal damage to creature A and then creature B, my trying to prevent damage to creature A puts you in a position of getting to choose which of my two creatures gets to live. How is that more intuitive?
Which is where my issue with it comes. If you choose to deal damage to creature A and then creature B, my trying to prevent damage to creature A puts you in a position of getting to choose which of my two creatures gets to live. How is that more intuitive?
E
EricBess
Guest
That's sort of what they have done, but combat tricks can all be played before the damage calculation happens regardless. The ordering of monsters was done to provide a bit of predictability so that combat tricks wouldn't be competely meaningless with multiple blockers.
T
theorgg
Guest
I'm going to have a Kobold milkshake.
Thanks, Ransac.
Thanks, Ransac.
T
train
Guest
607.2. If the object that’s resolving is an instant spell, a sorcery spell, or an ability, its resolution may
involve several steps. The steps described in rules 607.2a and 607.2b are followed first. The steps
described in rules 607.2c–i are then followed as appropriate, in no specific order. The step described
in rule 607.2j is followed last.
607.2a If a triggered ability has an intervening “if” clause, it checks whether the clause’s condition
is true. If it isn’t, the ability is removed from the stack and does nothing. Otherwise, it continues
to resolve. See rule 603.4.
607.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target
that’s moved out of the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game
state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed
or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it
was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if
all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not
countered, it will resolve normally, affecting only the targets that are still legal. If a target is
illegal, the spell or ability can’t perform any actions on it or make the target perform any
actions.
Example: Aura Blast is a white instant that reads, “Destroy target enchantment. Draw a
card.” If the enchantment isn’t a legal target during Aura Blast’s resolution (say, if it
has gained protection from white or left the battlefield), then Aura Blast is countered. Its
controller doesn’t draw a card.
Example: Plague Spores reads, “Destroy target nonblack creature and target land.
They can’t be regenerated.” Suppose the same animated land is chosen both as the
nonblack creature and as the land, and the color of the creature land is changed to black
before Plague Spores resolves. Plagues Spores isn’t countered because the black
creature land is still a legal target for the “target land” part of the spell.
607.2c The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written. However,
replacement effects may modify these actions. In some cases, later text on the card may modify
the meaning of earlier text (for example, “Destroy target creature. It can’t be regenerated” or
“Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, put it on top of its owner’s library
instead of into its owner’s graveyard.”) Don’t just apply effects step by step without thinking in
these cases—read the whole text and apply the rules of English to the text.
607.2d If an effect of a spell or ability offers any choices other than choices already made as part of
casting the spell, activating the ability, or otherwise putting the spell or ability on the stack, the
player announces these while applying the effect. The player can’t choose an option that’s
illegal or impossible, with the exception that having an empty library doesn’t make drawing a
card an impossible action (see rule 119.3).
Example: A spell’s instruction reads, “You may sacrifice a creature. If you don’t, you
lose 4 life.” A player who controls no creatures can’t choose the sacrifice option.
607.2e Some spells and abilities have multiple steps or actions, denoted by separate sentences or
clauses, that involve multiple players. In these cases, the choices for the first action are made in
APNAP order, and then the first action is processed simultaneously. Then the choices for the
second action are made in APNAP order, and then that action is processed simultaneously, and
so on. See rule 101.4.
607.2f If an effect gives a player the option to pay mana, he or she may activate mana abilities
before taking that action. If an effect specifically instructs or allows a player to cast a spell
during resolution, he or she does so by putting that spell on top of the stack, then continuing to
cast it by following the steps in rules 601.2a–h, except no player receives priority after it’s cast.
The currently resolving spell or ability then continues to resolve, which may include casting
other spells this way. No other spells can normally be cast and no other abilities can normally be
activated during resolution.
607.2g If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the
battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires
information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself or a target that’s
become illegal, the effect uses the current information of that object if it hasn’t changed zones;
otherwise, the effect uses the last known information the object had before leaving the zone it
was expected to be in. See rule 112.6a. (Note that if an effect divides or distributes something,
such as damage or counters, as a player chooses among some number of creatures or players,
the amount and division were determined as the spell or ability was put onto the stack rather
than at this time; see rule 601.2d). If the ability text states that an object does something, it’s the
object as it exists—or as it most recently existed—that does it, not the ability.
607.2h If an effect refers to certain characteristics, it checks only for the value of the specified
characteristics, regardless of any related ones an object may also have.
Example: An effect that reads “Destroy all black creatures” destroys a white-and-black
creature, but one that reads “Destroy all nonblack creatures” doesn’t.
607.2i If an ability’s effect refers to a specific untargeted object that has been previously referred to
by that ability’s cost or trigger condition, it still affects that object even if the object has changed
characteristics.
Example: Wall of Tears says “Whenever Wall of Tears blocks a creature, return that
creature to its owner’s hand at end of combat.” If Wall of Tears blocks a creature, then
that creature ceases to be a creature before the triggered ability resolves, the permanent
will still be returned to its owner’s hand.
607.2j If an instant spell, sorcery spell, or ability that can legally resolve leaves the stack once it
starts to resolve, it will continue to resolve fully.
607.2k As the final part of an instant or sorcery spell’s resolution, the spell is put into its owner’s
graveyard. As the
607.2j
This rule is being added to specify that once a spell or ability starts to legally resolve, it will resolve fully even if it leaves the stack during that time.
So what if the only target is removed after the resolving steps are past the 607.2b step?...
involve several steps. The steps described in rules 607.2a and 607.2b are followed first. The steps
described in rules 607.2c–i are then followed as appropriate, in no specific order. The step described
in rule 607.2j is followed last.
607.2a If a triggered ability has an intervening “if” clause, it checks whether the clause’s condition
is true. If it isn’t, the ability is removed from the stack and does nothing. Otherwise, it continues
to resolve. See rule 603.4.
607.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target
that’s moved out of the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game
state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed
or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it
was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if
all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal. If the spell or ability is not
countered, it will resolve normally, affecting only the targets that are still legal. If a target is
illegal, the spell or ability can’t perform any actions on it or make the target perform any
actions.
Example: Aura Blast is a white instant that reads, “Destroy target enchantment. Draw a
card.” If the enchantment isn’t a legal target during Aura Blast’s resolution (say, if it
has gained protection from white or left the battlefield), then Aura Blast is countered. Its
controller doesn’t draw a card.
Example: Plague Spores reads, “Destroy target nonblack creature and target land.
They can’t be regenerated.” Suppose the same animated land is chosen both as the
nonblack creature and as the land, and the color of the creature land is changed to black
before Plague Spores resolves. Plagues Spores isn’t countered because the black
creature land is still a legal target for the “target land” part of the spell.
607.2c The controller of the spell or ability follows its instructions in the order written. However,
replacement effects may modify these actions. In some cases, later text on the card may modify
the meaning of earlier text (for example, “Destroy target creature. It can’t be regenerated” or
“Counter target spell. If that spell is countered this way, put it on top of its owner’s library
instead of into its owner’s graveyard.”) Don’t just apply effects step by step without thinking in
these cases—read the whole text and apply the rules of English to the text.
607.2d If an effect of a spell or ability offers any choices other than choices already made as part of
casting the spell, activating the ability, or otherwise putting the spell or ability on the stack, the
player announces these while applying the effect. The player can’t choose an option that’s
illegal or impossible, with the exception that having an empty library doesn’t make drawing a
card an impossible action (see rule 119.3).
Example: A spell’s instruction reads, “You may sacrifice a creature. If you don’t, you
lose 4 life.” A player who controls no creatures can’t choose the sacrifice option.
607.2e Some spells and abilities have multiple steps or actions, denoted by separate sentences or
clauses, that involve multiple players. In these cases, the choices for the first action are made in
APNAP order, and then the first action is processed simultaneously. Then the choices for the
second action are made in APNAP order, and then that action is processed simultaneously, and
so on. See rule 101.4.
607.2f If an effect gives a player the option to pay mana, he or she may activate mana abilities
before taking that action. If an effect specifically instructs or allows a player to cast a spell
during resolution, he or she does so by putting that spell on top of the stack, then continuing to
cast it by following the steps in rules 601.2a–h, except no player receives priority after it’s cast.
The currently resolving spell or ability then continues to resolve, which may include casting
other spells this way. No other spells can normally be cast and no other abilities can normally be
activated during resolution.
607.2g If an effect requires information from the game (such as the number of creatures on the
battlefield), the answer is determined only once, when the effect is applied. If the effect requires
information from a specific object, including the source of the ability itself or a target that’s
become illegal, the effect uses the current information of that object if it hasn’t changed zones;
otherwise, the effect uses the last known information the object had before leaving the zone it
was expected to be in. See rule 112.6a. (Note that if an effect divides or distributes something,
such as damage or counters, as a player chooses among some number of creatures or players,
the amount and division were determined as the spell or ability was put onto the stack rather
than at this time; see rule 601.2d). If the ability text states that an object does something, it’s the
object as it exists—or as it most recently existed—that does it, not the ability.
607.2h If an effect refers to certain characteristics, it checks only for the value of the specified
characteristics, regardless of any related ones an object may also have.
Example: An effect that reads “Destroy all black creatures” destroys a white-and-black
creature, but one that reads “Destroy all nonblack creatures” doesn’t.
607.2i If an ability’s effect refers to a specific untargeted object that has been previously referred to
by that ability’s cost or trigger condition, it still affects that object even if the object has changed
characteristics.
Example: Wall of Tears says “Whenever Wall of Tears blocks a creature, return that
creature to its owner’s hand at end of combat.” If Wall of Tears blocks a creature, then
that creature ceases to be a creature before the triggered ability resolves, the permanent
will still be returned to its owner’s hand.
607.2j If an instant spell, sorcery spell, or ability that can legally resolve leaves the stack once it
starts to resolve, it will continue to resolve fully.
607.2k As the final part of an instant or sorcery spell’s resolution, the spell is put into its owner’s
graveyard. As the
607.2j
This rule is being added to specify that once a spell or ability starts to legally resolve, it will resolve fully even if it leaves the stack during that time.
So what if the only target is removed after the resolving steps are past the 607.2b step?...