It's a conspiracy, I tell you...

[Waubers]

I think you know why it would be fun....I am a pretty good player, ok. I am fairly well versed in the rules. I have a fairly descent collection of cards, but...evey week that I play in the local tournament I always loose to the guy playing bargain or academy or whatever overpowerd deck he has. It would be nice to once get a little revenge and hand my opponet, who might be playing bargain, his butthole. Now you're probably asking why do I keep playing because of the other 7 non go off on turn 2 decks that make playing fun.

Waubers

"SO THERE"

 

[Zadok001]

Thank the Lord. I'm not religious, but I'm willing to become religious under these circumstances. Phew. Phew again. Thank the Lord again.

However, that deck I built was a machine. It chewed up every deck I threw against it and spat them out as dogmeat. I tuned it, and it won turn 1 and 2. It's extended, but who the hell cares!

Thank the Lord.

--Zadok001, aka Greater Good fanatic
CPA Member
"We have more sprouts than they have hands."

 

[Ferret]

Um, can we hear ourselves - well, I can't the other voices are too loud...let me get this straight: you're tired of losing to the combo players (or is that 'playas') so you want to sink their level by doing the exact same thing?

I don't understand this...

-ferret

"Ha! No more nose! That'll teach that face!"

 

[Zadok001]

No, you don't understand. I'm not trying to build a deck to take to a tourney, in fact, I'd never let this deck out of my house, lest someone _really_ abuse it.

I was simply trying to see if that could truly be considered broken, or if I was overeacting to an unimportant loophole. Turns out that if it worked, it was most certainly broken.

Remember the Yawgmoth's Will/Ritual combo being tossed around in Europe? When 6th came out, I saw that combo. I checked it with my friends (who also wouldn't use the combo in a tourney), and we couldn't find any holes in it.

I didn't go dominate local tourneys with that knowledge, instead, I de-constructed the deck and refused to tell anyone other than my playtest group what the combo was. I don't want combo winter coming back, and I do my best to spot, then systematically ignore, any loopholes I see.

That's what I do.

As for what Waubers is saying, I can understand that idea. Giving those Bargain/Academy players an idea of how boring it is to play against combo decks is a _good_ thing. I'm not gonna do it, I don't want to give them any ideas, but these players are a blight on Magic as a whole. Beating one into the ground with a sickeningly broken combo is an attractive fantasy, but not one I'm gonna try out.

--Zadok001, aka Greater Good fanatic

 

[Waubers]

Thank you Zadok001! I don't play wicked combo decks other than Heart Warden/Pattern of Rebirth/Verdant Force I was just pointing out how much fun it is to hand the combo fiends their arse's

Waubers

"Down Simba!"

 

[Ferret]

I can see your point, Z.

Waubers, if you do well with it write an article about it. Try not to make it look to much like a tourney report - I don't want to tell you how to write; That would be rude. But, if it does as well as you think it might it would be nice to see how they all reacted to it...

-ferret

"...trying to keep our identity intact..."

 

[JF]

In reply to Waubers message from 08-25-1999 5:38.

No! The answer will be something else. Because intentionally not to pay the spells cost is something different from not to be allowed to annonce a spell!!

With the new 6E rule you do first announce and then pay! Isn't it much more logically than first paying and then announcing as in 5E? OK, besides that in 6E you may only announce if:
there is a valid target
you have the resources (mana and life etc.) you need for paying the cost.

Yes! OK?
But what if you intentionally not pay the cost AFTER announcement?

Think about the consequences:
You draw a card from an Enchantress - stupid!
You (maybe ??) discard the announced spell - dangerous!

Hopefully both not, because of:
1st turn Forest, Mox Diamond, announcing a Verdant Force - ups, I do not pay and discard Verdant Force, play Exhume (ups!!). Go.
Nice isn't it?

Or better not discard?
Enchantress, announce, draw card, ups, do not pay the spells cost, take announced spell back into my hand. Do it again!!!!

What now?

Any response wellcome!!

JF
(confused from 6E rules and errata)

 

[Waubers]

D'Angelo told me that if you can't pay for the spell in the first place nothing happens the spell goes back in your hand if you tapped land to pay for it they untap and any effects that would trigger are undone! You can still abuse enchantress though by acting like you can payfor it (enchantment spell) then "suddenly realizing" you can't you draw the card and then you would put it back on top of your library. The bottom line here is that there is no loophole. And if one is found in a case like this there would be immediate errata! Like I said with my replenish deck and with JF's example the loophole would be so powerful it would be sick. I would hope that WotC would stomp it into nothing. Just keep this info under out hats and there should be no potential problems!
As far as the 6th edition rules are I think that they are an improvement over 5th's chaotic mess called rules. Grated there wasn't neer as much errata but I think the errata was do in part to people abusing the cards. Take lotus vale. Would your play group ever let you play it tap it and then you say "no I don't want to sac my 2 lands for it so it dies!" My group would say "OK bury it and remove the mana from your pool, now! you cheeting bass turd" If a person tries to use a really stupid loophole on me I usually walk away from the match unless it cost me something to play them (AKA A tournament) and my play group just doesn't do crappy stuff like that. Infact the crappiest stuff done is when Pokey (guy I play with) plays Strategy Smategy that p!sses of everyone!
Bottom line is 6th isn't a bad set aslong as it isn't abused! All WotC did with the erratta was prevent people from abuseing the rules and this in my mind is an attempt to prolong the game for years to come. (except for waylay that was just WotC catering to Black Mages!)

Waubers

"OK OK I'll never use Lotus Vale again now stop throwing Fritos at me"
-Pokey's Last Words!