Hall of Shame Nominations: Visions

[BigBlue]

(Time to start all new friendly discussions... )

Nominations are due by 1/14

Archangel
Daraja Griffin
Equipoise
Eye of Singularity
Freewind Falcon
Gossamer Chains
Honorable Passage
Hope Charm
Infantry Veteran
Jamuraan Lion
Knight of Valor
Longbow Archer
Miraculous Recovery
Parapet
Peace Talks
Relic Ward
Remedy
Resistance Fighter
Retribution of the Meek
Righteous Aura
Sun Clasp
Teferi's Honor Guard
Tithe
Warrior's Honor
Zhalfirin Crusader
Betrayal
Breezekeeper
Chronatog
Cloud Elemental
Desertion
Dream Tides
Flooded Shoreline
Foreshadow
Impulse
Inspiration
Knight of the Mists
Man-o'-War
Mystic Veil
Ovinomancer
Prosperity
Rainbow Efreet
Shimmering Efreet
Shrieking Drake
Teferi's Realm
Three Wishes
Time and Tide
Undo
Vanishing
Vision Charm
Waterspout Djinn
Aku Djinn
Blanket of Night
Brood of Cockroaches
Coercion
Crypt Rats
Dark Privilege
Death Watch
Desolation
Fallen Askari
Forbidden Ritual
Funeral Charm
Infernal Harvest
Kaervek's Spite
Necromancy
Necrosavant
Nekrataal
Pillar Tombs of Aku
Python
Suq'Ata Assassin
Tar Pit Warrior
Urborg Mindsucker
Vampiric Tutor
Vampirism
Wake of Vultures
Wicked Reward
Bogardan Phoenix
Dwarven Vigilantes
Elkin Lair
Fireblast
Goblin Recruiter
Goblin Swine-Rider
Hearth Charm
Heat Wave
Hulking Cyclops
Keeper of Kookus
Kookus
Lightning Cloud
Mob Mentality
Ogre Enforcer
Raging Gorilla
Relentless Assault
Rock Slide
Solfatara
Song of Blood
Spitting Drake
Suq'Ata Lancer
Talruum Champion
Talruum Piper
Tremor
Viashino Sandstalker
Bull Elephant
City of Solitude
Creeping Mold
Elephant Grass
Elven Cache
Emerald Charm
Feral Instinct
Giant Caterpillar
Katabatic Winds
King Cheetah
Kyscu Drake
Lichenthrope
Mortal Wound
Natural Order
Panther Warriors
Quirion Druid
Quirion Ranger
River Boa
Rowen
Spider Climb
Stampeding Wildebeests
Summer Bloom
Uktabi Orangutan
Warthog
Wind Shear
Anvil of Bogardan
Brass-Talon Chimera
Diamond Kaleidoscope
Dragon Mask
Helm of Awakening
Iron-Heart Chimera
Juju Bubble
Lead-Belly Chimera
Magma Mine
Matopi Golem
Phyrexian Marauder
Phyrexian Walker
Sands of Time
Sisay's Ring
Snake Basket
Teferi's Puzzle Box
Tin-Wing Chimera
Triangle of War
Wand of Denial
Army Ants
Breathstealer's Crypt
Corrosion
Femeref Enchantress
Firestorm Hellkite
Guiding Spirit
Mundungu
Pygmy Hippo
Righteous War
Scalebane's Elite
Simoon
Squandered Resources
Suleiman's Legacy
Tempest Drake
Viashivan Dragon
Coral Atoll
Dormant Volcano
Everglades
Griffin Canyon
Jungle Basin
Karoo
Quicksand
Undiscovered Paradise

Happy Nominating!

 

[BigBlue]

I like Visions, as I've stated this was one of my favorite blocks...

This nomination comes without a thorough look through all the cards in the set because I just think this card is far too limited - especially when it was printed. Plus, it's main target is Blue, who'll simply probably counter it.

Suleiman's Legacy

It's very Cheap, though it is 2 colors... 2 colors which are in opposition.
It's Vulnerable as an enchantment - though it does have a cip ability.

The problem is it's limitation - it effects Djinn & Efreets... How many Djinn and Efreets do you really see in any format to merit the inclusion of this card? I realize this block includes some good ones... but this enchantment just seems far too limited to be real useful.

My close second is probably a surprise...

Equipoise - this card isn't useless (quite the contrary)... it's just insane to deal w/ in a casual multiplayer enviroment where every upkeep you have to count all sorts of permanents. For Casual... it's shameworthy...

 

[Oversoul]

My close second is probably a surprise...

Equipoise - this card isn't useless (quite the contrary)... it's just insane to deal w/ in a casual multiplayer enviroment where every upkeep you have to count all sorts of permanents. For Casual... it's shameworthy...

I don't get it. Counting doesn't happen every upkeep. It's only your upkeep. You only choose one opponent, and the numbers are generally going to be pretty low. "Let's see, I control one artifact and you control three. I'll have this thing and that thing phase out. I have four creatures and you have five, so that one will phase out. I have seven lands and you have five, so no lands phase out." Is that sort of thing so bad?

I mean, compare that to Chaos Moon. Or Grip of Chaos (unless I'm there to beat the crap out of the player who thought it would be fun to use Grip of Chaos in multiplayer).

Anyway, Suleiman's Legacy is one where, kind of like with Thought Lash, I'm hesitant about it. Sure, it seems way too situational, but what about with something like Unnatural Selection. Make a bunch of your opponent's creatures into efreets and play Suleiman's Legacy to blow them all up. That's all I can think of right now, other than Donate and Conspiracy, which, while clumsy, would actually be pretty awesome to do.

I'm going to nominate Corrosion. You could hypothetically exert some control over it by letting it die after it's wiped out the opponent's cheap artifacts while your own high-cost artifacts are spared, but that's really situational and still worse than other removal spells red has to offer.

 

[BigBlue]

Whoops... yet again I'm victim to not reading the card correctly... I only played it once in MP, and we misread it I guess... which was why I never replayed it... :blush: The Chaos cards had the same effect... no one liked the BS of counting so they weren't used at all... (Off the subject - Tombstone Stairwell was another annoying card as far as every upkeep changes, but I played it from the start w/ GY control in a Buried Alive Deck to great effect... Probably because I got 4 of them really fast in packs for some reason.)

However, Oversoul, your nomination only puts counters on target opponents artifacts, not your own... it will destroy your own zero cost artifacts, but any of your artifacts costing 1 or more is fine... unless your opponent is also playing corrosion...

So, adding Donate and Conspiracy w/ the Legacy you've got a 4 color deck... yikes... but it would be cool!
The Legacy wouldn't work w/ Unnatural Selection unless you made them djinni beforehand... it only buries them on entering play.

Nominations So Far:

Corrosion - Oversoul
Suleiman's Legacy - BigBlue

 

[Oversoul]

However, Oversoul, your nomination only puts counters on target opponents artifacts, not your own... it will destroy your own zero cost artifacts, but any of your artifacts costing 1 or more is fine... unless your opponent is also playing corrosion...

Yeah, I don't know what I was thinking about that. You don't need to worry about your own artifacts at all. But it's still really substandard artifact removal because it would take too long to get the job done. For example, if you needed to destroy a Juggernaut, you'd be beaten to death before Corrosion would kill it. But it could work better against things like Winter Orb or most mana-producing artifacts. Especially the artifact lands. Not as terrible as most of the hall of shame inductees so far, but still bad.

So, adding Donate and Conspiracy w/ the Legacy you've got a 4 color deck... yikes... but it would be cool!

Yeah, it's a bit of an extreme to go to in order to make a bad card do something significant. But if you ever pulled if off against an unsuspecting opponent in a casual game, I'd love to see the look on his face.

The Legacy wouldn't work w/ Unnatural Selection unless you made them djinni beforehand... it only buries them on entering play.

I realize that. I based this idea on the fact that Suleiman's Legacy is only two mana. An opponent is likely to only have a few threatening creatures out at any given time, so Suleiman's Legacy becomes a bomb that smashes everything you Selected. One use, but I'd imagine still workable. The biggest problem is that it requires three colors.

 

[DarthFerret]

My nomination is going to seem wierd and may not get much support, but here it is. Snake Basket. 4 Mana is ok for a cost, but for a rare that you have to sacrifice, and have a high amount of mana to make it even close to worth it? I would rather find other ways of making critters (The Hive, Hornet Cannon, Breeding Pit, etc...). If you could at least do this during an opponents turn, then maybe it could be usueful. However, it is sorcery speed which is extreemly dampening to this type of effect.

 

[Spiderman]

Those others make critters one at a time though. With Snake Basket, you get a whole bunch at once. I'm thinking it's generally used either with green for the fast mana or with the Mana Batteries or the sac lands from Fallen Empires that allow you to build up ctrs...

 

[Mooseman]

Suleiman's Legacy w/Artificial Evolution
Donate + Conspiracy + Suleiman's Legacy......
But Legacy by itself is just terrible...

Mycosynth Lattice + Corrosion kills all target opponents lands and starts destroying the rest of their permanents..... This would take all their attention to deal with and the rest of your deck could do something to win.....

Conspiracy + Snake Basket + Aether Charge is a cool combo, not great, but cool
Snake basket by itself is bad, but not useless.......


I'll have to go with Suleiman's Legacy so far as the worst, but none of this set is that bad.... compared to some of the earlier sets.

 

[Oversoul]

How is Snake Basket bad? I've been killed by it a couple of times.

 

[BigBlue]

The only drawback I know of is it's at Sorcery speed... So waiting the turn to get the 4 extra snakes after you play it is risky if your opponent can zap it.

 

[Spiderman]

<shrug> Which in my mind isn't Hall of Shame-worthy...

 

[BigBlue]

How about I start making a spot for None in the voting... if you really don't feel any nominated cards are hall of shame worthy, we can allow for None to go in from a set.

 

[Spiderman]

Sounds good to me

 

[Shabbaman]

Since I don't see a voting thread yet I assume I'm still in time... I nominate Time and Tide: All creatures that are phased out phase in and all creatures with phasing phase out. It's sort of a Snowfall: you could make it work for you if you have the right deck, but you'll never be able to use it as a hoser. Phasing sucks. If it's up to me, all Phasing cards end up on the Shame list... Like Snowfall, if you can find the right card to combine it with (something that's good when it phases in... like... hm... well...) it can be good. But I'm sure it's a waste of cardboard.

How about I start making a spot for None in the voting... if you really don't feel any nominated cards are hall of shame worthy, we can allow for None to go in from a set.

I'm not sure. Is the Hall showing the worst cards ever or the worst card of each set? If you want to show the worst cards we should be able to vote multiple cards per set in (I'd like to see both Snowfall and Melting ). Since we don't I'd say we'd have to pick a card from each set, no matter what.

 

[Oversoul]

Yeah, we've been doing it as a worst of each set so far. None of the above make it seem like every card in the set was good. I don't think any set printed has been like that. Certainly not Visions.

 

[Spiderman]

Caveat: It's the worst card of the set as thought of by the people nominating.