Discard/bounce pain deck.

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DarthFerret

Guest
Ok, gonna list out my deck list, explain what I want to see the deck do, and see if anyone can help with streamlining and speeding it up a bit, without taking away from the main theme of the deck. Keep in mind I have not bought any cards since the Time Spiral expansion.

Lands:
6 x Islands
9 x Swamps
4 x Dimir Aqueduct
1 x Watery Grave

Artifacts:
4 x Lotus Petal
1 x Sol Ring

Other:
2 x Urza's Guilt
4 x Recoil
4 x Diabolic Vision
1 x Demonic Tutor
3 x Will-O-The-Wisp (all I own)
3 x Mindstab
3 x Royal Assassin (again, all I own)
3 x Dark Ritual
4 x Megrim
4 x Warped Devotion
4 x Boomerang
2 x Time Elemental
2 x Wall of Vapor

Originally had 2 Walls of Shadows instead of the Vapor, but went for the single blue mana requirement instead of the double black mana requirement in the casting cost.

The deck is designed to basically get out Megrim and Warped Devotion (preferably more than one of each) and start bouncing the opponents permanents back to thier hand which forces a discard which causes damage. What I have discovered when playtesting is that sometimes I get into a small mana crunch. I have thought of resolving this with a couple of Howling Mines, but not sure what I would take out to make room for them. In addition, the extra card draw by the opponent would be nice as that gives me more targets for the discard. Also originally had 2 Hypnotic Specters in the deck, but they got removed after back to back games where they would be hitting my opponent with no cards in his hand. So, there it is...can anyone help me out with it?
 
Shabbaman

Shabbaman

insert avatar here
Underworld dreams, Memory jar, Magus of the jar, Windfall, the black Honden (coupled with the blue one), Teferi's puzzle box, Syphon mind and soul (for multiplayer), Mindslicer (plus Cabal therapy obviously) Urza's guilt... Some newer stuff: Raven's crime (repeatable discard), Rotting rats, and Nyxathid as a finisher.

The thing is, Megrim is possibly the worst card in the deck. Discard in itself is already good, but Underworld dreams is just better. I would suggest Ensnaring bridge/Grafted skullcap and then something like Smallpox (or Pox).
 
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EricBess

Guest
This is a deck I know something about because I used to play it. It was a lot of fun and surprisingly effective and I maintained it over quite a few sets. The only question is whether I can remember the cards and their names... :) (It's bee a while).

First, there are a pair of cards that pretty much guarentee that whenever a card leaves your opponent's hand, another one enters their hand. The first is Horn of Greed. In this deck, it is better the Howling Mine for a couple of reasons. For one, you can take advantage of the extra draw first. I never played Howling Mine in the deck, though, so it might work, but you don't really want it turn 2, so I would definitely play Horn of Greed first. I would also play Burgeoning or Exploration. Exploration draws you extra cards with the Horn, but I found that you draw almost too much with the Horn, so sometimes it is better to get a land into play without drawing.

The second card works with the Horn (and explains why the concern with drawing) is Mana Breach. Severely limits the amount of spells your opponent can play and guarentees that whenever they do play a spell, the card from their hand is replaced with a land from play.

After that, there are several other bounce cards that are amazing that you don't have here. Hoodwink is excellent (btw - I always focused on bouncing land, which made it harder for them to even play their spells in the first place), if more limited than Boomerang.

At one point, I added a bit of red for Crosis's Charm and Solfatara (or more recently, Turf Wound). Solfatara doesn't bounce, but it if you are bouncing, you know they have land in hand, so it it just as well and is a cantrip. Crosis's Charm adds flexibility in case you need to kill something in play.

Temporal Adept is very good and can cause a lock.

Mishra's Helix, while not bouncing, also ties up their mana, which limits them severly if they were able to get a few land into play.

I tried Storm Cauldron for a while, but for the 5 mana, the Helix is better. With Cauldron, you limit yourself too much and give them twice the mana for each land. And if the deck is working, Helix guarentees you won't run out of steam while the Cauldron is just "win more".

And interestingly enough, I sort of agree with Spiderman's comment about Megrim. I ended up removing it from the deck, but I don't remember what I did add that was a better win condition. I may have just ended up decking my opponent. You definitely don't need more than 2 if you play Horn of Greed because you will draw it.
 
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EricBess

Guest
BTW - in case this wasn't clear, I didn't bother with Warped Devotion. If they can't get cards out of their hand, then they are going to be discarding at least 1 card a turn anyway.
 
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EricBess

Guest
Spiderman;284120 said:
That would be Shabbaman... :)
Click to expand...
Wow, sorry Shabbaman. Credit where credit is due. I could have sworn that post said Spidey. My only excuse is that my head hasn't been on straight for some time recently. Just ask my wife ;)
 
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