CPA was mentioned at magicthegathering.com!

[Spiderman]

Actually, if I remember correctly, the Founders argued against errata-ing Waylay in the first place because now it was "being used" and it was WOTC's fault for changing the rules so it "worked better now".

I didn't check the link supplied in the article though about the CPA's beginning so it may be different, but that's what I remember...

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Oh, I'd better shut up then.

 

[train]

WOTC's biggest schpiel was that it was meant as a white "defensive" card...

You all of a sudden had 3 2/2 blockers that weren't previously planned on by the attacker...

White doesn't have ball lightning, and that's what the timing rules allowed Waylay to be... so WOTC "fixed" it... But it was the same rule that made Sneak Attack so broken...

Sneak "so-and-so" creature in response to the at end of turn stack, and since all AEOT abilities were already stacked - it waited until the next turn to be sac-ed...

SO... it seems the Game Rules should have been altered and not Waylay...

 

[Spiderman]

I'm not sure of the reasoning behind the "At EOT" step only happening once and "until EOT" step repeating itself; it seems the repeating part should have included the "at EOT" also...

 

[train]

They BSed their way through it by saying that the AEOT was in place for effects and abilities such as Sneak Attack, and it would have worked fine if the rules didn't state that all "active" AEOT abilities went on the stack only once...

That's what allowed the new ones to wait a full turn before they resolved...

All they needed was a rule change... all they did was screw white weenie...

 

[Spiderman]

WW didn't use Waylay before 6th, so it didn't really lose anything when it was "corrected"...

 

[WickedBoy6]

Built the Type 1 Weenie, I'll post it in the Decks section later. Hope everyone thinks it's strong enough.

 

[train]

But the Waylay was what won the world championships... That was the coming out party for white weenie...

and then WOTC re-voked all the invitations to the party...

The deal was that only blue and red could handle 3 fast white creatures... blue by countering it... and red with something similar to aether flash...

the tokens were never around to be wrathed... so it was unstoppable - thus winning worlds...

 

[Spiderman]

Right, but it won because someone figured out "the loophole" in 6th and with Waylay and no one else was expecting it. You don't see people using Waylay (that much) between the time when it came out and 6th rules.

In other words, the rules made it "broken", in which case, the rules or card needed to be changed (as it turned out, it was the card) so it acted the way it did before 6th. And before 6th, it seems people didn't think Waylay was strong in WW.

 

[train]

I guess I was just meant to be a CPA person if I believe the rules and not card should have been changed...

Think it was because of all the rulebooks they had printed out?... Cheaper to just errata one card...

 

[Apollo]

The CPA founders argued that it took away all kinds of other possibilities, such as saccing the tokens or something. Even making the errata something like "bury these tokens at the beginning of any turn" would have made the card all right without screwing up the other uses of the card.

 

[Spiderman]

Well, I think the rules were a good thing overall. Since the thing "At EOT" really only affects a handful of cards out of the hundreds printed and made, it makes more sense to change the card.

 

[Thallid Ice Cream Man]

Rando's quotation was then mentioned in the Rakso article you linked to on the front page, Spidey. That's worth mentioning too .

 

[train]

Rando's quote is everywhere isn't it...

that's cool Rando...

 

[Rando]

I didn't know Rakso used the quote too...neat-O.

Unfortunetly the DCI did not listen to what I had to say on the subject of Berserk and unrestricted it. Bad days ahead.

For reference, here's the section of the letter I sent to Forsythe regarding Berserk and Black Vice.

You will probably receive letters on this subject that suggest that the cards Black Vice and Berserk be unrestricted.

Black Vice is a vicious card that should never be taken off the restricted list. It's not powerful enough to warrant a full ban, but is evil none the less. Obviously anyone lobbying for it's removal does not remember the days of having to play against a deck with 4 Vices.

Berserk, on the other hand would be a great card to have 4 of and would be a huge boost to aggressive decks like Stompy and Zoo. Unfortunately, the creatures Quirian Dryad and Psychotog spoil the fun. An unrestricted Berserk would only make the so-called "gro" decks better, and these decks continue to see fast development and a growing player base. It's too bad, but a blue based aggro-control deck with these two creatures would just be too good, I think.

Oh welll..you win some...you lose some.

jp

 

[Dune Echo]

Originally posted by Spiderman
Actually, if I remember correctly, the Founders argued against errata-ing Waylay in the first place because now it was "being used" and it was WOTC's fault for changing the rules so it "worked better now".

I didn't check the link supplied in the article though about the CPA's beginning so it may be different, but that's what I remember...

Funny, I drop off the face of the planet for a few months and I come back and find this thread...

Um, I can't speak for the others, but my whole gripe was WotC touting how innovative 6th Edition rules would be and when someone breaks a card under the new rules, they can it. Also, the errata just sucked because now you couldn't even do what the "original intent of the card" was.

Personally, with Anger now available, I want to build an Angry Waylay deck.

-Dune Echo

"... I am such a slacker... "

 

[Spiderman]

I'm glad you feel back on the planet then...

So should they have errata'd Howling Mine, Winter Orb and the like so that they didn't turn off when tapped?

My view was that Waylay slipped through the cracks (one card out of the 2 billion out there) and they would have set up the At EOT step to repeat itself like they did with until EOT step. Thus, they chose one way of fixing it (not the way I liked, obviously).

Besides, a person DID break a card under the new rules: Illusions of Grandeur. Though of course people have argued that it should be errata'd so that the person putting it into play also loses the life...

 

[Ferret]

Issuing errata isn't even really a consideration anymore, as we feel that doing so is more damaging than it's worth. Casual players really, really hate errata. (In fact, the Casual Players Alliance was formed because of the errata issued to Waylay in August of 1999. True story.)

Technicaly, we started in July of '99, but who's being picky? Yeah, many of us were angered by the erata of waylay. It's not that we didn't want the card erata'ed. We wanted the GAME erata'ed. The end of the turn phase was where all kinds of nastiness hapened - not just little Knight tokens coming into play to cause lots of harm every turn. We wanted to create a voice that WotC would listen to that didn't attend Pro Tour Qualifiers - or even the weekly tourneys at the local gaming store. We wanted them to know that we represented a majority of the Magic playing population and were not going to be silent.

For fun and a little nostalgia go back and read the first article ever written on the site (written by the completely immodest me)

-Ferret

"I'm mad as hell, and I'm not going to take it anymore!"

 

[Spiderman]

The end of the turn phase was where all kinds of nastiness hapened - not just little Knight tokens coming into play to cause lots of harm every turn

What else was there that caused a concern way back when?

 

[train]

Sneak Attack, Shallow grave, Lifeline...

Basically anything you can look up on Crystalkeep, that has "at end of turn" could be affected...