CPA Build-A-Deck III: Liliana Vess

Shabbaman

Shabbaman

insert avatar here
Welcome to this new installment of CPA Build-A-Deck, "CPA BAD 3: return of a villainess, featuring Liliana Vess". Boy, I hate sequels...

Anyway, by special request this new edition starts with a planeswalker. For those who don't know what a planeswalker is: it's a kind of magic card. Really. Not a representation of a player, but an actual card. You can see the card in question here:

Name: Liliana Vess

Set & Rarity: Lorwyn rare

Cost: 3BB
Card Type: Planeswalker - Liliana

P/T: 5 (loyalty counters, to be exact)
[+1]: Target player discards a card.
[-2]: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
[-8]: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

Some rules for this thread:

- one card per person per day
- you may add multiples of a card (I think this is new, but let's build a playable deck...)
- quote the decklist and add your card to the list
- use color tags to identify the card
- link to the card or quote card text
- the deck has to be legal in some format, unless specified otherwise; so don't add illegal cards!
- explain your card choice

That's a lot of rules...

So, we start with Liliana Vess. Let's stick to the Legacy B/R for this one (I don't really enjoy playing WGD combo with my casual decks you know...). As thread starter I'm taking the liberty of adding another card: Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace. It's a land that makes everyone discard a card, which let's you make good use of LV's ultimate ability.

4x Liliana Vess
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace

Creatures spells: 0
Non-Creature spells: 4
Land: 1
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Ugh, what's the Legacy B/R list? I know, I could look it up. But I'll add Demonic Tutor, always good for black.

Liliana Vess:

Name: Liliana Vess

Set & Rarity: Lorwyn rare

Cost: 3BB
Card Type: Planeswalker - Liliana

P/T: 5 (loyalty counters, to be exact)
[+1]: Target player discards a card.
[-2]: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
[-8]: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

4x Liliana Vess
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
1x Demonic Tutor

Creatures spells: 0
Non-Creature spells: 5
Land: 1

Total: 6
 
M

Modus Pwnens

Guest
That's banned in Legacy.
Do we add lands as well?

Anyway, I"ll go for.. Death Cloud. It's really awesome with planeswalker lemme tell you :)



Name: Liliana Vess

Set & Rarity: Lorwyn rare

Cost: 3BB
Card Type: Planeswalker - Liliana

P/T: 5 (loyalty counters, to be exact)
[+1]: Target player discards a card.
[-2]: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
[-8]: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

4x Liliana Vess
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Death Cloud

Creatures spells: 0
Non-Creature spells: 6
Land: 1

Total: 7
 
Mooseman

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
Modus Pwnens said:
That's banned in Legacy.
Click to expand...
Is it staying in the deck?

If you want LV's ultimate ability to be used, you're gonna have to last 3 turns after she hits the table, so.... let's keep those pesky creatures a bay with Hissing Miasma. They'll lose life just to attack.

I added the comp rules about Planeswalkers, just to get everyone up to speed on them.

Why 4 in the deck? They are like legendary creatures, only one at a time in play.

Name: Liliana Vess:

Set & Rarity: Lorwyn rare

Cost: 3BB
Card Type: Planeswalker - Liliana

P/T: 5 (loyalty counters, to be exact)
[+1]: Target player discards a card.
[-2]: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
[-8]: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

4x Liliana Vess
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
1x Demonic Tutor
1x Death Cloud
1x Hissing Miasma


Creatures spells: 0
Non-Creature spells: 7
Land: 1

Total: 8

212.9. Planeswalkers

212.9a A player who has priority may play a planeswalker card from his or her hand during a main phase of his or her turn when the stack is empty. Playing a planeswalker as a spell uses the stack. (See rule 409, “Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.”)

212.9b When a planeswalker spell resolves, its controller puts it into play under his or her control.

212.9c Planeswalker subtypes are always a single word and are listed after a long dash: “Planeswalker — Jace.” Each word after the dash is a separate subtype. Planeswalker subtypes are also called planeswalker types. Planeswalkers may have multiple subtypes. (You can find the complete list of planeswalker subtypes under “Planeswalker Types” in the glossary at the end of this document.) If two or more planeswalkers that share a planeswalker type are in play, all are put into their owners’ graveyards as a state-based effect. See rule 420.5.

212.9d Loyalty is a characteristic only planeswalkers have. The loyalty of a planeswalker not in play is equal to the number printed in its lower right corner. The loyalty of a planeswalker in play is equal to the number of loyalty counters on it. A planeswalker is treated as if its text box included, “This permanent comes into play with a number of loyalty counters on it equal to its printed loyalty number”; this ability creates a replacement effect (see rule 419.1). As a planeswalker gains or loses loyalty, loyalty counters are put on it or removed from it, respectively. Damage dealt to a planeswalker results in that many loyalty counters being removed from it. If a planeswalker’s loyalty is 0, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard as a state-based effect. See rule 420.5.

212.9e Planeswalkers can be attacked. (See rule 308, “Declare Attackers Step.”)

212.9f Each planeswalker has a number of activated abilities. A player may play an activated ability of a planeswalker only during a main phase of his or her turn, when he or she has priority and the stack is empty, and only if none of its activated abilities have been played that turn. The cost to play an activated ability of a planeswalker is to put on or remove from that planeswalker a certain number of loyalty counters, as shown by the loyalty symbol in the ability’s cost. An ability with a negative loyalty cost can’t be played unless the planeswalker has at least that many loyalty counters on it.

212.9g If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 419.6c) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 419.9). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Why 4 in the deck? They are like legendary creatures, only one at a time in play.
Click to expand...
In case one gets killed? Beats me... maybe we just need three? I've never played with planeswalkers so I don't know what the right proportion is.

Since Demonic Tutor is banned, I'll replace it with Duress.

Name: Liliana Vess:

Set & Rarity: Lorwyn rare

Cost: 3BB
Card Type: Planeswalker - Liliana

P/T: 5 (loyalty counters, to be exact)
[+1]: Target player discards a card.
[-2]: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
[-8]: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

4x Liliana Vess
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
1x Duress
1x Death Cloud
1x Hissing Miasma


Creatures spells: 0
Non-Creature spells: 7
Land: 1

Total: 8

212.9. Planeswalkers

212.9a A player who has priority may play a planeswalker card from his or her hand during a main phase of his or her turn when the stack is empty. Playing a planeswalker as a spell uses the stack. (See rule 409, “Playing Spells and Activated Abilities.”)

212.9b When a planeswalker spell resolves, its controller puts it into play under his or her control.

212.9c Planeswalker subtypes are always a single word and are listed after a long dash: “Planeswalker — Jace.” Each word after the dash is a separate subtype. Planeswalker subtypes are also called planeswalker types. Planeswalkers may have multiple subtypes. (You can find the complete list of planeswalker subtypes under “Planeswalker Types” in the glossary at the end of this document.) If two or more planeswalkers that share a planeswalker type are in play, all are put into their owners’ graveyards as a state-based effect. See rule 420.5.

212.9d Loyalty is a characteristic only planeswalkers have. The loyalty of a planeswalker not in play is equal to the number printed in its lower right corner. The loyalty of a planeswalker in play is equal to the number of loyalty counters on it. A planeswalker is treated as if its text box included, “This permanent comes into play with a number of loyalty counters on it equal to its printed loyalty number”; this ability creates a replacement effect (see rule 419.1). As a planeswalker gains or loses loyalty, loyalty counters are put on it or removed from it, respectively. Damage dealt to a planeswalker results in that many loyalty counters being removed from it. If a planeswalker’s loyalty is 0, it’s put into its owner’s graveyard as a state-based effect. See rule 420.5.

212.9e Planeswalkers can be attacked. (See rule 308, “Declare Attackers Step.”)

212.9f Each planeswalker has a number of activated abilities. A player may play an activated ability of a planeswalker only during a main phase of his or her turn, when he or she has priority and the stack is empty, and only if none of its activated abilities have been played that turn. The cost to play an activated ability of a planeswalker is to put on or remove from that planeswalker a certain number of loyalty counters, as shown by the loyalty symbol in the ability’s cost. An ability with a negative loyalty cost can’t be played unless the planeswalker has at least that many loyalty counters on it.

212.9g If noncombat damage would be dealt to a player by a source controlled by an opponent, that opponent may have that source deal that damage to a planeswalker the first player controls instead. This is a redirection effect (see rule 419.6c) and is subject to the normal rules for ordering replacement effects (see rule 419.9). The opponent chooses whether to redirect the damage as the redirection effect is applied.
 
Oversoul

Oversoul

The Tentacled One
Spiderman said:
Ugh, what's the Legacy B/R list?
Click to expand...
The only format I know of with a restricted list is Vintage. Legacy only has a banned list: http://www.wizards.com/Magic/Magazine/Article.aspx?x=judge/resources/sfrlegacy

What with all the black spells, we're going to want some way to power those out. I'll sprinkle some mana acceleration on this deck...

4x Liliana Vess
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
1x Duress
1x Death Cloud
1x Hissing Miasma
1x Dark Ritual

Creatures spells: 0
Non-Creature spells: 8
Land: 1

Total: 9
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Well, we're only adding one card at a time (so I edited it), but is this deck going to be highlander (aside from the planewalker) or can someone else add a multiple card later on?
 
Shabbaman

Shabbaman

insert avatar here
I'd rather not do highlander unless it's Elder Dragon Highlander. If we go with too many singletons it's more a "name a card"/word association-thread than a deckbuilding thread.
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
(* I say allow multiple copies, but they can only be added one at a time*)
(* Speaking of EDH... why couldn't these decks be like that - where the planeswalker is your EDH, but not necessarilly 100 cards etc... *)

Synergy, Synergy, Synergy... Plus, discard at Instant speed is cool...

Nezumi Shortfang

4x Liliana Vess
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
1x Duress
1x Death Cloud
1x Hissing Miasma
1x Dark Ritual
1x Nezumi Shortfang

Creatures spells: 1
Non-Creature spells: 8
Land: 1

Total: 10
 
Mooseman

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
Can we retract a card we listed if it doesn't work in the deck anymore?
I like the not highlander format for this.
 
S

Spiderman

Administrator
Staff member
Yeah, but I think it's still one card per person per day. So you could add Dark Ritual, I could add it, BB could add it... just not one person adding 4 copies of it.
 
Shabbaman

Shabbaman

insert avatar here
I'd add two dark rituals, but I'll leave that up to you... but with the same reasoning, I'll add a Cabal coffers. Just assuming that we'll go for a lot of swamps instead of a full domain...

4 planeswalkers might be too many. I don't know, they die easily I guess...

4x Liliana Vess
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
1x Cabal coffers
1x Duress
1x Death Cloud
1x Hissing Miasma
2x Dark Ritual
1x Nezumi Shortfang

Creatures spells: 1
Non-Creature spells: 9
Land: 2

Total: 12

BigBlue said:
(* Speaking of EDH... why couldn't these decks be like that - where the planeswalker is your EDH, but not necessarilly 100 cards etc... *)
Click to expand...
If that's a format you'd like to play... but the number of planeswalkers is limited, and most of them are monocolored. That limits your options. Most people would play either Garruk or Liliana (or the new ones), and being able to play your planeswalker out of limbo makes your deck insanely strong.
 
Mooseman

Mooseman

Isengar Tussle
I'm sensing the gist of this deck is to keep cards out of your opponents hand, right? So, I'll add Cao Cao, Lord of Wei. With this and Liliana in play, your opponent shouldn't have cards in hand most of the game. Is the Legendary status a problem?
Maybe some removal is needed. What are good creatures that have removal? Mesmeric Fiend?
Also dual lands a necessary.


4x Liliana Vess
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
1x Cabal coffers
1x Duress
1x Death Cloud
1x Hissing Miasma
2x Dark Ritual
1x Nezumi Shortfang
1x Fireball
1x Cao Cao, Lord of Wei

Creatures spells: 2
Non-Creature spells: 10
Land: 2

Total: 14
 
B

BigBlue

Guest
Here's one thing... we have Lilliana for discard... and late game discard draws are just pointless... I'm going to propose a different direction... Control as opposed to a lot of discard cards... Or - use Instant speed Discard (Funeral Charm) - so you can get it during their draw step.

Liliana can force a player with no cards to discard for 1 loyalty, correct?

Fireball will be more broken in this format since it can be directed at planeswalkers instead of players... do we want to allow this? Unless all these decks have a way to deal non-combat damage to players, it'll be unfair.

shabbaman said:
If that's a format you'd like to play... but the number of planeswalkers is limited, and most of them are monocolored. That limits your options. Most people would play either Garruk or Liliana (or the new ones), and being able to play your planeswalker out of limbo makes your deck insanely strong.
Click to expand...
With all the decks having planeswalkers as an EDH... it'd be equal footing.
 
R

Rakarth

Guest
Liliana is still sorcery speed discard and can only be used once per turn but you are correct.

Would the deck be better as B/U not B/R or is that decided, because you could start to mill them and counterspell to get cards into the graveyard as well. Cards like Induce Paranoia will mill the opponent or Memory Sluice.

If all that is above then I propose Dream Salvage to get back some cards and gain even more card advantage.



4x Liliana Vess
1x Rix Maadi, Dungeon palace
1x Cabal coffers
2x Duress
1x Death Cloud
1x Hissing Miasma
2x Dark Ritual
1x Nezumi Shortfang
1x Fireball
1x Cao Cao, Lord of Wei
1x Damnation
1x Dream Salvage

Creatures spells: 2
Non-Creature spells: 13
Land: 2

Total: 17
 
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