Being Casual

[Duel]

first off, go to http://www.ccgprime.com/feature/inter/aaronf.htm

It's an interview with Aaron Forsynthe. You remember Aaron, he's the one who wrote the "Stop being so casual" article. Surely you must remember flaming him. Ironically, it's done by Baskil, the writer who's "top/bottom 10" list got HIM flamed severely too. These are two guys who have gotten a LOT of flak from these board.

Some highlights from the article:

CCGP: Do you think people were being unfair with you over the whole "Stop Being so Casual" article?

AF: "People?" No. I got a lot of great feedback on that piece. A ton. E-mails from all over the world saying "I played my in my first tournament and it was great," or "My casual playgroup sucks, too. What should I do?" It was generally well received and appreciated. Now, if by "people" you mean the Casual Players Alliance (of which you are a member, correct?), then maybe just a little. My lone flame e-mail came from one David Zadok Stroud, CPA Founder. We traded correspondence for a while, and he said he couldn't believe I didn't get a ton of nasty mail considering how badly trashed I was getting on the CPA message boards. So I checked it out, and they were pretty pissed. But that's ok; they're allowed to say what they want. To this day I stand by the fact that the article wasn't aimed at them - the sector of players perfectly content with the casual style - it was meant for those becoming disillusioned. I can't believe I'm still defending that article. I regularly go to the CPA message boards when I need my ego bruised; I've been called a "horse's ass" on there, a "nobody," a "narrow-minded freakoid," the whole nine. Good beats indeed.

Now, for an admission:
Aaron Forsynthe ain't that bad.

It occurs to me that we've picked up the nasty habit of being overdefensive.

First that thing with Aaron Forsynthe, then that hubbub over Baskil's article, and now we're working like crazy, and Ed is editing out enough stuff to make me think that he's actually planning a hostile takeover of the U.S. and need information repressed.

If this post gets edited or deleted, I will be pissed.

My message here: Relax.

This is a website, we are people. Magic is a game. So is golf. You can win money at it, but if you do, it's no less a game than if you don't. You can agree or disagree with stratagies, but the game is still solid.

I think we owe Aaron and Baskil an apology. My opinion, I don't intend to force it on you. Sorry.

I think we should stop being so uptight. Just relax and let this go where it will. This is a great site, but don't get defensive. Accept criticism.

Recently, I've felt more and more that I'm now one of the more relaxed members, and that disturbs me (As it would anyone who knew me.)

What's going on, guys?

 

[Chaos Turtle]

...which of course is why I do not participate in the "flame-throwing."

I respect other's opinions, even when they're stupid.

 

[Gizmo]

Yup.
It can get pretty rabid in here.

 

[Killer Joe]

I e-mailed Aaron Forsythe, but not to flame him. I just told him who I was and that I'm from the same town as he and that as a member of the CPA, I personally wasn't offended (I only spoke for myself). Furthermore, a while ago, I wrote a little article on the front page called, "Deconstructing Jamie Wakefield", in which I attempted to stand up for Forsythe while trying NOT to compare him to Jamie Wakefield.
Well, since then I've been thinking more; if Aaron Forsythe cannot, should not, be compared to Jamie Wakfield, then why does it seem that folks ARE comparing him to Jamie Waksfield? Is it just coincidence?
I don't know Aaron personally (but I do plan on introducing myself to him at the pre-release this month), but I think Forsythe is basically a good guy.

 

[Ed Sullivan]

...Ed is editing out enough stuff to make me think that he's actually planning a hostile takeover of the U.S. and need information repressed.

Due to your other comments about this, I've come to the conclusion that you aren't just joking ("If this post gets edited or deleted, I will be pissed."). Umm... now where the hell did THAT notion come from? I haven't edited a post in several months and even then, it was for profanity.

 

[Duel]

Uh, sorry. Somone has edited out several threads that I started and comments I've made. none of them were profanity. Someone has been doing this to me with a huge amount of consistency, whenever I post a complaint. Sorry.

 

[Cateran Emperor]

[me]looks at the whole editing thing and opts to look baffled[/me]

Forsythe wasn't such a bad guy. I may have been rough on him (I remember very little of the thread), but I tried to hold back and not flame. My attitude on everything is rather laissez faire until someone goes too far. Then I usually interrupt. I may have inadvertently attacked Aaron in defense of the CPA.

If I did, I'd like to apologize to Aaron, I try not to do that but it can be hard to say nothing sometimes.

Some of our more impetuous members had a field day, but what can you do?

 

[arhar]

Well, if I remember correctly, I posted a message saying that I unfortunately came to the same conclusions as him (i.e. became dissilusioned with casual play). I e-mailed him saying that his article was great. Hope I don't get flamed for it now

But I don't remember anyone calling him names here, of course some people lost their temper, but I think generally, we're pretty nice.

No comment about the second person involved, though.

 

[Apollo]

Well, that was the one article of his that I haven't liked. I still think that that article made some unfair generalizations about casual groups, and had no disclaimers that said he was referring only to certain groups. As I recall, he basically compared casual players everywhere to the dumb members of his old playgroup, and I didn't like that.

I stand by most everything I said about that article. That said, I have enjoyed all of his other ones.

And as for Baskil, I actually look at his top 10 for article recommendations. However, I still think a bottom 10 is unneccessary and serves only to discourage writers who are doing their best.

 

[Zadok001]

Re: Flames

Yah, I flamed the living daylights outta him...

Which, I must say, was a complete and utter mistake. Those of you who know me either personally or very well on these boards know I am completely capable of 'going off' on some topics. I don't tend to post those rants publically, perferring email or te MtgNews boards (*grin*) as my flame-location of choice. I was _really_ pissed at Forsythe when I wrote that email.

I think I've said this before, but his response to my email absolutely stunned me. I was expecting a flame entitled 'Return To Sender,' but I got a well thought-out letter that was very kind and completely peaceful. Each of the points I brought up was carefully analyzed and considered by his reply. I have _never_ been more impressed by an email from anyone. Period, and end of story. I have the highest respect for the guy.

Re: Relax

Done. I don't think we've had a big flame bit here for a while now, and the whole Aaron thing was a long time ago (i.e., his first Dojo Good Beats column). We can get pissed sometimes, but to be honest, it's useful. By bringing issues up here, we can help defuse them. Or we can just flame random journalists off the Dojo, whatever.

Aaron's a cool guy. Trust me on that. Nothing I said in that email was justified, nor was anything I said here. I screwed that one up GOOD.

 

[TomB]

We're still hearing about that article, and our members response to it, months after the fact.

Wild.

But do we owe Aaron Forsythe an apology over it? True, some of our members went a little overboard in their criticism of it, if I remember right (it was a while ago!), and there were some outright flames, but an apology?

I don't think so. See, I kind of feel like Apollo does, and that this is the first I've heard of any sort of a qualification about "disillusioned" casual players. It sounds more to me like he's trying to back down somewhat from what he had said in the article, and that sounds about right considering our response to what he had to say.

I wouldn't worry about it.


re: Duel

I can't ever remember editing or deleting anything you've written, much less something of substance like a complaint, and I doubt any of the other Admins would either. If I didn't agree with something you said I'd tell you about it, and we'd discuss it here, in front of everybody.

I've never been terribly shy about that sort of thing...

 

[Baskil]

To tell you truthfully, I had a hard time coming up with questions for that interview. That one came to mind because I assumed that there were flames that he had gotten. I guess I was right

Anyway, no apology is needed, to me at least. I have my opinions, you have yours. That's really all there is to it. By apologizing for your opinions, you are only hurting yourself.

Oh, and look at this on MeridianMagic:

Improving Your Game
Posted by Alex Shvartsman at 15:47

A number of articles are recently posted that will attempt to help you grow as a player. Darwin Kastle describes the value of building rogue decks. Shawn Jackson describes a number of play errors he's had to overcome to improve his game. Fletcher Peatross opens a sealed deck workshop, Sean McKeown revisits 1.x Pox and John Rizzo (aka IssueBoy) takes a moment away from the issues to talk about Invasion limited.

Does that make me happy or what

 

[Duel]

Re: Meridian Magic
Congrats, Baskil

Re: Apologizing.
I think you guys misunderstand. I was apologizing, and explaining my raitionale for doing so. I was wrong. You may not have been. I do not suggest you apologize for anything you believe, no matter how rude it seems. I was apologizing because I remember making remarks that, in the light of day, don't seem so clear-headed.

 

[Cateran Emperor]

[me]reads Zadok's quote about flaming random Dojo writers then grins evilly[/me]. . .

Nah. Nothing to flame about except the usual serious vs. casual player stuff, and since our site's currently the minority, all that would do is hurt us.

Although...when all is said and done, you have to admit that a flame war is quite fun. Perhaps another one is in order...

Nice going Baskil.

 

[Duel]

Yeah! Congrats baskil, you're making a name in all areas....
Rizzo's article mentions you too!

 

[Spiderman]

Well, I'm pretty sure I didn't flame or even call Aaron names over that article, just that I got the same vibe as Apollo from it and spoke my thoughts.

Re: Duel

One good thing about being gone is that I can say *I* wasn't doing anything and I'm pretty postive no one was on my account because the last visited date had 12/8. So I don't know what was going on... maybe someone hacked into your account again... <shrug>

 

[Duel]

Damn, true. It's happened before. ANyways, I'll change the passowrd and pray to the gods of the http://www.